Ed Rosenthal on Dateline

[Guest niall]

I'm taping it so it'll be up on Pot-TV in a day or so 

can you provide a link when it's up on pot-tv?

Here ya go: http://www.pot-tv.net/archive/shows/pottvs...howse-2256.html

[Luke Skywalker]

Thanks for that one mate, I missed the re-run, had to pick up one of the Cats from the vet... poor guy. Anyway, cheers again Aussie Activist....

 

It's a facinating case, isn't it? IMO there is blame which can be apportioned all over the place if you want to look for it.... The jury did make a mistake, and yeah, sure, they were under a lot of pressure to do so, but like Robbie pointed out, there were many legal avenues as jurors they could have taken.... The guilty verdict I think comes more from a subconscious level of "save the system, hang the man" like Robbies also explained in other posts here... Americans are scared shitless right now, rightly or wrongly, and a scared person is usually more likely to cower than fight if they've had it easy for a while... And as a society, they really have had it fairly easy for the last half century or more... Sure, they've got their problems, all societies do, but the American people have been so played, for so long, they rarely know what "natural law" is... "Isn't that US law? We're the greatest in the world, and god's children, so yeah, it must be...."

 

However, I must also applaud those jurors who stepped up and decided to recant their verdicts after the fact... What they did was wrong, they realised this, (somewhat naively after the fact, but they did realise it) and as such felt they must say so... Like to know what the other 6 jurors think, although I have a feeling you'd find them rather reluctant to enter the debate... Just wondering, what kind of penalties are these jurors flaunting? Anyone know these penalties in fed cases for speaking out after a court case like that?

 

Now, the judge, well, he's really stuck in the middle of all this, and has probably done as best he could, but once again, it's a case of the system overriding the true meaning of justice... 'Course, humans are rather arrogant that we think we can acheive such a thing, but that's another issue... The Judge probably felt the conflict about the evidence and nature of the case being argued before him quite intensely... He's been forced to disallow the evidence, probably with a solid backing in legal mumbo jumbo, and has thus caused this outcome... It's something that he could have allowed the defences argument into the case, but if he did, he had to weigh up the legal arguments put before him, and rule the way which is legally correct... not necessarily right... so if he had of allowed it, then an appeal court could perhaps have easily have overturned any rulings, as they were based on emotive rather than strictly legal means.

 

Once again tho, there's a big however... I say he's felt the conflict because of the sentence he handed down... (incidentally, anyone know what the total time spent in prison for him was?) Some will quite rightly say that he was influenced in sentencing by others, but what he did was acknowledge that the man before him was not a criminal, (he had to have heard the evidence of his legal cultivation under state law to disallow it) and sentenced him to the absolute minimum he could, time served + 1 day. Now, that may not be the ideal outcome, I agree, Rosenthal shoulda been aquitted... He shouldn't have faced trial in first place... but what the judge did was really, what he felt he could. Course, he may have been thinking something totally diff, and I may be way of base, but I think he deserves at least a couple brownie points for his actions...

 

There's only one real villain here, the US Govt... and those supporting prohibition. Ashcroft, and the whole prohibition league, are trying their hardest to fight an unwinnable war, not because they honestly think it can be won, no, because they're making stupid amounts of money out of it, and in their mind will be long gone before any re-legalisation occurs... There are vast corporate benefits to keeping MJ down, not to mention the advantages for governments in having a large prison population and punitive legal system for corporate use. Think about all the money spent on searching for, arresting, and gaoling these people, it's just staggering... most of it's going into private hands....

 

They want to call it a "Drug War?" The fine, these bastard are war criminals, it goes all the way up to the top... Georgie Porgie and his cronies aren't going to get away with it... Already the population, thanks to the very creations they made to keep us pacified, are starting to realise and educate themselves about the realities of the so called "Drug Wars"... More and more people are protesting it, as well as many other facets of the US Governments policies at home and abroad...

 

I will watch the next 10 years in the US carefully, and don't be surprised if the whole thing just disintegrates either... There are a lot of pressures on that system of Govt, and up until recently, (30yrs or so) they've had a reasonable level of control over humanity.... That's starting to come apart at the seams now, as we can all see,

 

I've gone a bit off the rails here, so I'll finish up my rant and let you all get back to discussing Ed's conviction and story...

[RobbieGanjaSeed]

You're not talking off the rails mate, ed rosenthal's conviction is an interesting insight into the American system, and the idiot way the american populous will die, or kill to support a system that they belive makes them something superior to the rest of the world.

 

The drug war issue is so complicated with american phsyce that it just cannot be seperated.

 

I'm close friends with one of the organisers of the Michigan marijaua law debate. He himself has shown me this fact. He's sent me boxes, literally boxes of news paper articles from US papers that show the hurdles we face befoe the drug war can be abolished.

 

There is so much in the way they use the populations devotion to the "American way" to continue to keep this sharade going.

 

You're right, America is loosing face, and I believe they'll ulitamately hide behide their misile project against the rest of the world, and when that's done, hopefully, we will have stopped following them in their errors.

 

Pipeman, I don't want to fight waith you mate. I see something you don;t, and I don't disagree with what you say in much of what you said. You're ok mate.

 

cheers

rob

[Chev]

God.......But then you can't really blame 'Americans' themselves, they're basically a brainwashed race, controlled by their own government. I actually feel sorry for them, in a sick kind of way

But they've really been successful so far in their campaign to frighten people about marijuana, and the extent of that mind control is going to take a lot of work from campaignists and advocates of pot, especially high profile supporters, to turn it around.

We have already succumbed to Americanisation enough, and even small aussie traditions and ways are being replaced, and they are without most peole even realising. But I guess that's the thing about mind control on a subconcious level, it has a way of creeping up on you :: Bloody American propaganda.........All the bullshit about pot, it's all propaganda, designed to make you fit into what THEY want, and behave how THEY want you to. Well guess what? Screw the system, coz the system is going to screw me if I get busted.

I'm 100% Oz mate, thru and thru. I love mighty mite (can't be fucking vegemite coz the wankers own it),fast Holdens and my Hills Hoist. And Aussie chicks.........mate, oz chicks rule the school, yanks don't even rate to me.

Fuck Mdonalds, I hate clowns anyway. Screw Subway, i can make a sandwich for diddle in my kitchen. And my red heeler can barf better burgers than hungry jack's.

And as for your beer........V.B. makes me cum quicker than any of your 'boutique' piss ever will ::

But seriously.......I buy ozmade and owned now. Not being rude, there is some good american stuff I s'pose I still reckon Aussies are the greatest race on earth but........... Goodnight!

[skankmaster]

Ha ha classic chev 81, love the bit about the VB...

[Chev]

Ha ha classic chev 81, love the bit about the VB...

Mate.......but it's true, VB rocks :: Anyday of the week.........

[RobbieGanjaSeed]

I'm talking to this yank the other day, he's got his addictions. Benzos, opiates, grog...he's been an internet friend for a few years, and I like the guy. He's alright.

 

The other day, he starts tellingme that they (America) have to consider more radical approaches to stem the flow of marijuana into America. He tells me the situation of Canada, "not caring about marijauanat all", and how if that's how they like it in their country then fine, but it's being grown in clandestine sitautions with artificial light, and then back packed over the border into America. So he tells me.

 

This guy smokes a little pot, uses heaps of other drugs, and is still echoing American gov. propaganda.

 

I didn't tell him I knew a little bit of the way the game played in Canada, through a friend I have there that keeps me up to speed with their situation on things, so I just let my yank friend roll on.

 

He told me how they (American Gov.) can find the clandestine grow rooms in America, by heat sensitive equipment, and the Canadians could do it as well,if they cared enough to. He just generally spoke as though pot in Canada was the new "goldern triangle" was to heroin. Back packing large quantities of grass over the border? What the Fu? How many people would that take?

 

But they capture the American mind with sensationalism, highlighting stuf to cause a mentality of paranoia, even when there's nothing to be worried about. He went on to tell me he can't see why it can't be legalised and taxed, so everybody's happy, but even this was just to show he's "open minded" about the whole thing.

 

I just thought it was amazing, that the conditioning goes so far into the grain. I mean if you only knew the half of this bloke's daily drug habit, you'd understand what makes statements interesting.

 

I know the new prime minister in canada has changed everything around, but that's not my point, it's just the depth the propaganda has effect on that amazes me. He's not down on smokers at all, there's just not a lot of regular users in his circle.

 

No wonder they have such a hard time changing the laws over there, if this is the effect on drug users; what does it do to people who don't use any drugs at all.

 

Well, no illegal drugs at least. Seems as though everyone's on somthing.

 

cheers

rob

[Chev]

This guy smokes a little pot, uses heaps of other drugs, and is still echoing American gov. propaganda.

Honestly? I even find I do it sometimes. Some things are just drummed into us from birth, and become almost second nature. I never thought to even look at pot (until high school and I had to ), I was terrified of it the first time I saw it, LMFAO. Because of all the bad, nasty shit that I got taught about it. That my parents got drummed into them as kids............

This might even sound childish, or naive But I still feel guilty sometimes. For smoking and growing. Because I know what my parents think, I know my mum especially still has trouble getting used to it. I'm pretty close to mum. I come from a big family, that also have big mouths sometimes. Also, the fact I had a bit of a blue one day with a roomfull of them about pot, and basically told everyone that they could 'have sex and travel' because I grew it, didn't help much..........But, my fathers side love the horses, and almost all of them drink on a weekly basis, some daily.

I know she worries about what others are thinking, and I can understand that. And as a parent, you don't want to think you've failed your kids in anyway. She's not a total square or anything I have got her bent a couple of times :: Just the way she was brought up, Irish Catholic, and that's why I copped it (private school). So, I don't blame her at all, and that's what makes me so goddamn angry about it.

I'm now open about being a pot user, pretty much to anyone. I'm not going to hide it anymore, why should I? (apart from the fact it's illegal :: ) It's taken me years, but my parents have actually only recently really accepted that pot's pretty much the same as using alcohol or something of the sort.

It just makes me cranky, people shouldn't have to feel ashamed about it, or isolated from the rest of society. And it all goes back to one thing (in my mind anyway)................the stupid mythical bullshit stories that started about pot a long long looooooooong time ago.

Just another insight into the way American propaganda seems to have affected our lives

[Guest niall]

I'm now open about being a pot user, pretty much to anyone. I'm not going to hide it anymore, why should I? (apart from the fact it's illegal :: ) It's taken me years, but my parents have actually only recently really accepted that pot's pretty much the same as using alcohol or something of the sort.

Talking to my family about cannabis was extremely liberating :: I'd always gotten a little anxious and careful (not quite paranoid but just keeping an eye on things or friends without completely letting go) when using cannabis, because it was illegal and I was worried about what my family, neighbours or certain friends would think. Now I'm completely open to everyone who's interested, I can't stand the thought of hiding and tip-toeing around other people, at my own expense, for the rest of my life.

 

I firmly believe that not only am I exercising my own right to choose and right to personal happiness, but I honestly believe that moderate, responsible, recreational use is of benefit to my health. Just like a glass of red wine, it helps you unwind and combats stress. It's of immeasurable benefit for head trauma and stroke, so I'll defend myself on personal possession tooth and nail because I don't want to ever be without it in an emergency. I find it invaluable on an intellectual/emotional level for inspiration, problem solving and analysis, brain storming etc.

 

Coming out of the closet was a long, hard decision. But it's one that I would gladly make again, words can't describe the positive difference it has made to my life. Highly recommend it

[RobbieGanjaSeed]

I think all the reasons you have for smoking are great, but I think the best defence for using grass is no defence at all. Why feel defensive?

 

I've always said the onus is on people to prove to me there's something wrong with my actions, and not the other way around. Or else, where will my day end? Justifying every little thing I do that others don't like or agree upon.

 

I've had a completley different upbringing to it all than chev though, for example. My father and I smoked together since I was about 14, back in 78. He was one of the 70's "down with the man" protestors, and what with smoking and living amogst smokers, I grew up thinking the whole world smoked, and only the occassional few didn't. No joke. I was given "The marijauan growers handbook" for my 16thbirthday by my father, and was given an oz of has on my 21st.

 

During my teenage years, I was proud of the fact my father was a financial member of the Australian marijauan party.

 

When I got to my early 20s, and realised that the vast majority didn't smoke, I was like shell shocked for ages. I was a bit worried too. My world perception had altered somewhat at that point .

 

I wont smoke however in public, unless it's accepted in the immediate scene, or if no one's within sniffing distance. I think people have the right to not be exposed to it as much as we have the right to use it.

 

I think repect for each other is needed.

 

rob

Edited October 21, 2003 by RobbieGanjaSeed