LED's; an explanation that seems reasonable

[farmerBrown]

Nib is a great guy, he's just a big softy. I'm growing with LED's at the moment and even tho he doesn't like them he has still been happy to help me out with any issues I have encountered.

 

One thing I will hit you up on Nib is this statement

 

"No Chato, I haven't used LED's , its because anyone who knows electronics Properly can see by their specs they won't work as stated. I got enough Electronics Knowledge to figure it out before I blow my money on them."

 

Its the spectrum and PAR output that is relevant to plants - nothing to do with lux/lumens/watts or anything else...this is according to plant biology and I think as people are understanding more about growing, this is why we are now seeing digital ballasts marketed as PAR boosting ballasts rather than high lumen ones. There were or maybe still are companies that flat out lie - ie: 90w LED = 400w HID. Obviously this is bullshit but reputable high quality LED makers have never made such stupid claims. There are plenty of LED/HID comparison grows on US forums where the LED out does the HID using less power. But there are an equal number of LED disasters. So of course there is going to be conflicting opinions.

 

I've used HID in the past and it works, simple as that. No one can argue with MH/HPS. Although in this country the jury is still out on LED's there are heaps more people in the US using them so it seems reasonable that their opinions carry more weight than us Aussie growers that have never even tried. Thats pretty much the reason I'm doing a LED grow, actually a few LED grows - I need to see for myself how it works. I don't think the cost is that bad when you consider digi ballast/cool tube/extra fans/replacement bulbs required for HID. True, LED can be very expensive if you choose a supplier that likes to rob people, but I must say I've been pretty happy with what I have seen so far and I certainly didn't break the bank. I'm still a ~month off harvest so I won't give any definitive opinion yet and as I've said before if I get a low yield or kill a plant or 2, I don't really care its just a plant and just a hobby for me, hell I rarely even smoke the shit any more I just give it away.

Edited July 10, 2012 by farmerBrown

[colorado-transplant]

THANK YOU SO MUCH FARMERBROWN!!! You have pretty much summed up everything relevant, the fact anyone looking at LUMENS when comparing LEDs is irrevelant but I guess that's hard for electricians to understand. I just figured since he had done so much research on his own supposedly that it didn't matter what I said and that only coming to this realization on his own would it hold any merit or be internalized as having any relevancy what so ever. I guess I was kinda being an ass too, laughing inside at the LUMEN output when it doesn't really matter. I apologize. Good Luck with your experiments and remember the angles on those LEDs can have a big impact as well, make sure that canopy is being penetrated, but sounds like you know what's up and I truly appreciate your objective reply. we should all take something away from your wisdom.

[tangwena]

Back again mf. Ok Ihave been growing with my led light for those that give a shit, I also have a hps grow The sativas definatly need hps the brighter the better, the indica leening side dont seem to mind leds. I have a silver haze under led plus a couple of her daughters (clones) they are growing very well. The sativa hawaiin snow I changed to the hps and it loves it better than the 120w led.I flowerd a tai tanic at about 150mm in hight early in the grow just to get some buds under led it was an indica pheno and is realy good I have clones from it that I reveged from branches after they had flowerd and have all come through the trauma and are now normal looking. I have only just got back into it after a 12 year break and i am having a ball thanks to the info I got from this forum (no names this time mf). Once I figure out how to upload photos I will do so but Im an old *#%@ and this computer shit is taxing my brain.I reckon it boils down to if you just want stuff for yourself and weight is not the main criteria then leds work on indica type strains very well sativas need more light. Well thats my opinion for what its worth. You will get good plants and good head from them, just maybe a little less weight especialy with the sativas. I will try and post a photo of the silver haze before harvest in 5 weeks or so and you can decide if 70% less power bill is worth the plant in the grow room,yes a hps would have produced more bud its all down to cost of production. The buds on the taitanic are so sticky and have an excellent crazy up high I have 4 clones thank god as it was the only seed I had. Its going to be a good year.

[colorado-transplant]

 

 

And for the record my genes come from Barneys farm in Holland where the THC and CBD contents are tested.

But hey just a cheap shot again from a petty man, I call a Spade a Spade.

 

Peace. Nibbler.

 

Look man, I apologize, I too got upset at your comments that insulted me and I guess we started a vicious cycle. But just read FarmerBrown's post to actually learn something. It's not all about the electronics when it comes to growing plants. AND I NEVER REFERRED TO THE 900W MODEL??? SO??? I don't use that one and never have!

 

And not to be a prick but.....seeds are just seeds....you can order all the seeds you want but without the right conditions and techniques you can't match the specifications from the company, just like the LED companies the seed companies are just trying to make a dollar as well. I have had the best results cross-breeding european and american genetics, or getting clones from fellow breeders that I had tried the results from. If you can get ahold of it I highly recommend trying out Skywalker or Sour Grape, they have been my most potent nugs, both around 21+% using a Gas Chromotagraphy machine, which really isn't that accurate but everyone in the States seems to think they are and can test strains for about $100 a piece and get really cool results on the different cannabinoid levels. And I too have grown over 500 strains, all from seed companies in Holland, that was one of the advantages of being in the industry back home. there are some really great genetics but it still takes some experience to get close to their posted results.

 

So in the end, call me what you want but I still disagree with your perspective on LEDs, that's all, no reason to be bitter as I am apologizing for being a dick. Although, if you have no experience with something (LEDs) then maybe just stay out of the forum to begin with. I'm not really sure why you would even get involved without having ANY first hand experience. Good day. And yes I do mean "Good day", I am well aware of the "G'day" but still feel too much like a foreigner to use the ol G'day.

Edited July 10, 2012 by colorado-transplant

[MongyMan]

I've used HID in the past and it works, simple as that. No one can argue with MH/HPS

 

I've been sitting back watching the various LED threads over time as well and think this statement says exactly what those being labeled as the "flat earthers' 'scared of change' 'anti-led' whatever you want to lable those posters are saying in one simple sentance.

 

The issue isn't with LED's.

 

It's with pomoting them as a superior light sorce over HID in anything other than use in a micro-grow or as a suplimental light sorce to HID (HID includes plasma technology)

 

LED ARE STILL EXPERIMENTAL AS A STAND ALONE LIGHT SORCE AND ARE DEBATABLE AS A SUPLIMENTARY LIGHT SORCE. That is a fact.

 

WHEN THEIR ONLY NEED IS A GUARENTEED OUTCOME. New growers don't need to hear from people telling them LED is the way to go from growers who's need to feel like they are pioneers by being seen to be doing something 'different' such as using LED's or using a fancy lighting schedule like 12/1 (12/1 is an old breeders trick to induce hermies by the way) appears to be more important than facts, unless they are also told its experimenting.

 

Experimenting and trying new things is one thing (and there is deffinatly a need for it) .........passing it off as tried and proven befor it is and especially without backup pics etc is another mater..

 

LED DOES NOT MATCH HID AS A STAND ALONE LIGHTING SYTEM EVER YET.....

 

If it does......

 

Where are the links to these amazing LED grows?

Where are the growers?

More importanly where are the pics from those promoting them so loudly?

 

Peace MongyMan

 

 

Ps imo LED have a use as suplimental lighting, clones or micro-grows.......they are not usless...but they don't come close to HID lights

[farmerBrown]

You're right MM if you want guaranteed results just go with HID and follow some basic grow advice, can't really go wrong.

 

I'm certainly not advocating LED as a HID replacement for everyone. If people are happy with HID use it. But for those of us that want to experiment with LED and see what happens its just a little annoying to have people constantly saying how they're shit and it won't work. That's for the individual to discover for themselves. As I said if you want easy guaranteed results buy HID. If you like risks buy LED and see what happens, might be surprised

 

As for pioneers like this 12/1 lighting thing, come on man that's being a little harsh. I haven't used it myself but there are diaries on this forum from start to finish where 12/1 work fine and are plenty more on other forums where people are using it too. Sometimes when one 'knows' they are right the weight of evidence against their truth doesn't always register. As I said I haven't tried 12/1 yet, but I will after a few more LED grows and I've decided for/against LED. Not to be seen as a pioneer, but because I won't to know for myself if it actually works!

 

I'm not posting links to other forums here but if you need evidence just google "Irish Boy LED" or browse through a few US forums. There's plenty of LED grows with pics.

 

Tang, got a sativa under LED at the moment and all is well. But your logic about LED and indica makes perfect sense.

[MongyMan]

...As I said if you want easy guaranteed results buy HID. If you like risks buy LED and see what happens, might be surprised

 

 

Hear Hear farmerBrown...thats exactly the situation I see with the entire LED/HID argument. If you want a garenteed result go HID.....if you are keen to experiment then by all means try LED......many are keen to see they can save power etc for the same grow result....who wouldnt?

 

 

Peace MongyMan

[MongyMan]

As for pioneers like this 12/1 lighting thing, come on man that's being a little harsh. I haven't used it myself but there are diaries on this forum from start to finish where 12/1 work fine and are plenty more on other forums where people are using it too.

 

12/1 is an old growers trick to force rodelization....somewhere along the line in recent times someone decided it sounded like a good idea to grow under.

 

The majority of cannabis plants will veg under 12/1 yes but at what cost? Why not just use 13/11 ? they will still veg same as under 12/1 without the hermi issues in flower.

 

If you are going to grow under 12/1 you need plants that were bred for it......which can and has been done....12/1 isn't a new thing.

 

On this forum 12/1 has far from proven itself.....vrod, now the claw has serious claw issues and has had herimi issues.....as have all other growers using 12/1 here........Please link the other grows here which havn't failed.

[El Gato]

 

 

12/1 is an old growers trick to force rodelization....somewhere along the line in recent times someone decided it sounded like a good idea to grow under.

 

The majority of cannabis plants will veg under 12/1 yes but at what cost? Why not just use 13/11 ? they will still veg same as under 12/1 without the hermi issues in flower.

 

If you are going to grow under 12/1 you need plants that were bred for it......which can and has been done....12/1 isn't a new thing.

 

On this forum 12/1 has far from proven itself.....vrod, now the claw has serious claw issues and has had herimi issues.....as have all other growers using 12/1 here........Please link the other grows here which havn't failed.

True that. I only had my ballast die for a couple of nites and a week later my plant looked like it had had the sick. Bananas everywhere.

 

Anyway thats a bit off topic.