LED's; an explanation that seems reasonable

[StreetninjaP]

Hi all,

Now I have been made fully aware of the inadequecies of all who grow with LED's, can we just say right now that you're scorn and derision has been noted, and your presence is no longer required here. After doing a bit of research, I never actually found anything that would preclude me from using them.In fact, the biggest problem I found was trying to find information that wasnt obviously biased etheir for or against for whatever reason. I think I may have found some at one site that seemed on the level, and if so, taught me more about LED light ing then I did over the last two weeks;

 

 

1W vs 3W vs 5W

 

There are various LED wattage ratings, the most common used for grow lights are 1W, 3W and 5W diodes. The wattage of any LED is determined by the amount of amperage passing through it. 1W LED's for example, are operated at 350mA, while 3W LED's are operated at 700mA, and 5W LED's at 1000mA. Whenever amperage is increased, the extra energy is converted more into heat rather than increased light output, which consequently decreases LED efficiency.

 

For example, a 1W 630nm LED produces 50 lm/W, with minimal power loss to heat. In comparison, a 3W 630nm LED that produces only 35 lm/W (a little bit over half efficiency). 5W LEDs are even less efficient, producing only 21 lm/W! When the heat signature of a LED grow light increases above 120 degrees Fahrenheit, the longevity and output of the LEDs decreases rapidly over time, for a grow light that will burn out well before it's lifespan rating (50,000-100,000hrs). So although multiple wattage LEDs produce more output per LED (don't be confused with lumens per watt!), the key difference to consider is efficiency. True, higher wattage LEDs do produce more lumens per LED, but there is more power loss to heat.

 

In the meanwhile, grow lights using multiple watt LEDs cost less to manufacture because there are less materials involved. Many companies use multiple watt LEDs to give the illusion of a more powerful grow light, but they are actually tricking the consumers into buying a much less efficient, and a much cheaper to build product.

 

2W-2chip/3W-3chip LEDs

 

2W-2Chip and 3W-3Chip LEDs are classified in the "Multi-Chip Emitter" category. These LED's are not your traditional 2W or 3W LED, which function with a single emitting diode. Instead multi-chip LEDs use multiple 1W diodes under a single lens. Since 1W LED's are the most efficient of any LED in use, most people assume that these chips are just as efficient, if not more efficient because they utilize multiple 1W diodes. When you start to break down these LEDs however, and examine exactly how they are being used, higher efficiency is certainly not the case.

 

Due to heat restrictions, 2W-2Chip LED's are presently being driven at 400mA and 3W-3Chip LED's at 500mA. Now since each LED contains multiple 1W chips, the amperage being supplied must be divided by the # of chips to determine the amperage of each chip. For 2W-2Chip LED's this equates to 200mA per chip, and with 3W-3Chip this is just under 170 mA per chip. In relation to the amperage a 1W is supposed to be driven at (350mA), each of the chips in the 3W LED is receiving under half the rated amperage, with the 2W LEDs coming in slightly above half! So instead of using a single 1W LED at full brightness, many manufacturers are now using multiple 1W LED's at half brightness under 1 lens in order to create the illusion of more light! however, more light is most certainly not the case, and dimmed LEDs will never deliver the levels of penetration achieved with full brightness LEDs.

 

The reason why each chip is run at such a low amperage is because when the amperage to each chip is increased, the lifespan and output is greatly reduced, or the LEDs would burn out completely!

 

 

 

Anyone with any thoughts?

 

 

[resinate]

yep go HID

 

Goodluck with whatever you decide to use

[smashed1]

nice work might give em a go for winter

[STONEDAJ69]

Alright, I'm trying not to be negative here - seriously - Whats the lumen output of these LED devices, how broad of a light spectrum do they have, compared to HID?

 

If you're seriously invested in having weird lights, man, go plasma... they shit on HPS from what I've seen.

[Newiechick]

Great article, thankyou

[StreetninjaP]

Thanks Newie,

 

I was really getting frustrated at a lack of unbiased info about LED's. All I seemed to be able to find was bullshit claims from people trying to flog them off , the occasional negative review from someone who bought the bullshit claims and got a little ufo and tried to grow a massive Big Bud, and then there was a LOT of negative reviews from people who have spent a massive aqmount of time and money on "traditional" grow lights and now seem to be ready to disregard any technological developments regarding LED, could it be that some indoor growers are a little nervous that the lights they have spent so much money on are about to become obsolete?

 

Street

[MongyMan]

....... could it be that some indoor growers are a little nervous that the lights they have spent so much money on are about to become obsolete?

 

Street

 

 

Possible....but I highly doubt it. Could be they are sticking to what is proven works until someone can show LED's or something different can do the same or better?

 

Peace MongyMan

[headhigh]

While LED is the future of growing, the future isnt here yet.

 

While i've never used them i have done considerable amount of research into it and unless you're willing to hand over a few thousand for some top of the line stuff you'll be lucky to achieve an average result.

 

I don't think the bias here relates to the obsolete technology of HID. HID will continue to be used well after LED becomes industry standard because those who cannot afford $1500 - $3000 for a LED setup will continue with the HIDs.

 

There are alot of benefits to using LEDs however what you're missing is that maximum lumen output - there isnt a grow LED on the market that has the ability to push out over 100,000 lumens while the spectrum of light is perfect for growing it lacks in the output which will only ever net you mediocre results (on a good run).

 

If ya choose to go down the LED path, PLEASE make a grow diary; always alot of interest around this topic.

 

Good luck mate!

[smokinjoe]

Thanks Newie,

 

I was really getting frustrated at a lack of unbiased info about LED's. All I seemed to be able to find was bullshit claims from people trying to flog them off , the occasional negative review from someone who bought the bullshit claims and got a little ufo and tried to grow a massive Big Bud, and then there was a LOT of negative reviews from people who have spent a massive aqmount of time and money on "traditional" grow lights and now seem to be ready to disregard any technological developments regarding LED, [highlight]could it be that some indoor growers are a little nervous that the lights they have spent so much money on are about to become obsolete?[/highlight]

 

Street

 

As Mongy said I doubt it. LED's have some great positives but unfortunately they are let down by there serious shortcoming, lumen output! I've seen a million posts of LED grows and can't say I've seen one that was even remotely impressive. They seem to be ok for veg, but again not a patch on a MH.

[ConvexConepiece]

I've seen a cpl decent LED grows - 1 guy claiming he's pulling ~1.5g/watt. To achieve this he was using quite a few of those UFO lights ($$) and he commented that the heat output with that many was similar to HIDs.

 

I won't waste my time with them personally, not for many years to come.