Growing cannabis part of Aboriginal culture: court

[MongyMan]

I personally believe it did

 

Mongy man, on what basis do you believe weed was not brought here by white man? or do you think it was brought here via Indo - PNG natives? that may be a possability.

 

Yes dave, there was trading between PNG and Indo people long before Europeans had any idea Australia even existed and cannabis was well known in those societies. I can't imagine cannabis wasn't involved at some time in those trades. It's also possible that mongyweed may have been a localised species of cannabis already growing here when Europeans arrived imo.

 

Peace MongyMan

[olddave]

MongyMan this will keep my brain active for a while researching the history of weed in OZ

[jabez]

'Race' is a meaningless term.

 

Meaning may just a matter of perception, but considering endless amounts of people both suffer and thrive on the very definition of race, personally my perception tells me that it is not as meaningless of a term as you might claim.

 

I 'm wondering if this hostility is cultural?  what I mean is, was hostility toward particular others taught in your home?

 

 

I'm a little confused now. Wasn't it you who declared what the koori people can and can not claim as part of there culture? That in itself seems a little hostile to me. 

 

Also I come from a middle class white family in the leafy eastern suburbs of Melbourne. So like a lot of 'better than thou' families like mine, hostility against other cultures was taught, but it was in the form of what I like to call subconscious racism. Which to put it basically is when a person says "I'm not racist, but!" then proceeds to make a hostile or bigoted comment.   

 

I wonder how many indigenous families you know?  and how many of those families drink alcohol and/or take drugs?  how many white families do you know?  and how many of those families drink alcohol and/or take drugs?

 

 

This whole paragraph seems a meaningless to me and even a little juvenile. Obviously I've known a lot more European families than aboriginal, but from my personal observation cannabis is culturally more excepted with aboriginal families than with traditional european aussie families.

 

What people need to understand is alcohol is an extremely toxic substance to all human beings. Although, when Europeans first started building civilizations with large populations (about 5 thousand years ago) we started polluting our water ways. The only way we managed to survive is by fermenting the water, by making alcohol. Since it was the only clean source of water, alcohol would of even been given to babies and over 5 thousand years the European genetic line has eventually built up a tolerance to the toxic effects of alcohol. 

 

Seeing as alcohol has played such a large part in creating our way of life, it's probably not surprising that the toxic poison known as alcohol is so ingrained within european society.

 

Both koori culture and genetics lack this ancient relationship to alcohol and there for imo have a physical and scientifically valid argument as to why a completely non-toxic ethnobotanical plant should be officially recognized as part of there culture instead.

 

Peace

[jabez]

Yes dave, there was trading between PNG and Indo people long before Europeans had any idea Australia even existed and cannabis was well known in those societies. I can't imagine cannabis wasn't involved at some time in those trades. It's also possible that mongyweed may have been a localised species of cannabis already growing here when Europeans arrived imo.

 

Peace MongyMan

 

I think you make a very good point there mongy man. Tobacco made it to northern Australia long before europeans, so it's hard to believe that cannabis never did.

 

Peace

[Budman2012]

When all is said and done ... I'm happy that the judge was somewhat lenient in this case.

 

Obviously , trying to play the Race (or Cultural) card was thought a good way to go in this hearing , why not. Though I tend to agree that while maybe it shouldn't be , race and culture are seperably linked ... I don't necessarily think that it was a 'bad' card to play in this case.

Aswell as the whole "Pleading Guilty" thing ... sometimes strategies need to be used to either get a point across ... or to decrease the potential penalties involved. Just because one doesn't Feel any guilt doesn't mean that under the laws (no matter how fucked up) that one Isn't guilty of breaking those laws. e.g. if you have the plants growing in your yard/house and they are obviously yours ... you are indeed "guilty" of Breaking those laws and arguing otherwise is near futile.

That's not to say that pushing the issue by pleading "Not Guilty" and putting forth arguments against the laws and as to why one should not be penalized should not be undertaken in certain cases , as it is important in furthering the 'pro' argument and as an activistic mechanism. Sometimes though , the most sensible option is just to plead guilty , put forth your argument as to why (medicinal use etc) and that is that. It seems that the judges are taking medicinal use arguments and the like into account more accordingly these days so even if pleading guilty ... these things bear a mention if they relate to you.

 

Also , many cultures/races from around the world visited this country long before the Europeans , I agree that there is a good chance that Cannabis has been on this Island for much longer than many may think. Possibly , even indigenous strains that have been here 1000's of years ... that's a hard one to prove , though entirely plausable.

 

 

P.S. ...

'Race' is a meaningless term.

Meaning may just a matter of perception, but considering endless amounts of people both suffer and thrive on the very definition of race, personally my perception tells me that it is not as meaningless of a term as you might claim.

 

 

What people need to understand is alcohol is an extremely toxic substance to all human beings. Although, when Europeans first started building civilizations with large populations (about 5 thousand years ago) we started polluting our water ways. The only way we managed to survive is by fermenting the water, by making alcohol. Since it was the only clean source of water, alcohol would of even been given to babies and over 5 thousand years the European genetic line has eventually built up a tolerance to the toxic effects of alcohol.

^ Um , I don't think that is entirely correct Jabez ... ... Alcohol is NO replacement for water. Contaminated water has historically been boiled ofc ... and although maybe not as visible , pollution is arguably much worse now than it ever has been.

While I agree with many of your points ... and agree of the toxicity of Alcohol compared to the toxicity of Cannabis that you so often bring up ... Saying things such as above only discredits your arguments man.

 

You can't ferment water btw , Alcohol has been around a Looong time before the dates you mentioned (Traces and Writings of Beer have been dated as far back as 6000BC or so), and 5000 years ago there was barely such a thing as Large European Civilizations (as far as I can remember from History class ) ... Ancient Greek civilizations dated from around 1000BC to the Roman Republic around 500BC I think , any pollution back then would not have been much of an issue (sewer systems were invented to cope with the human waste) ... better check myself (brb) ... yeh , that's all about right ... and according to wikipedia some of the earliest (Civilized) European writings are accredited to Homer for the "Illiad" and Homers "Oddessy" Although ancient Sumerian and other other regions writings (mainly the middle east) date back a lot further and also mention Beer and Wines etc.

 

If there are any history buffs about , please do correct me if I'm wrong ... I'm no expert ... just wanted to point out that the use of Alcohol did NOT come about 'forced' because of polluted waterways by ancient civilizations 5000 years ago.

 

Cheers all

 

Budman

[jabez]

budman, what are you even talking about!

 

I never made any kind of claim about when alcohol came about, or for what reason people started drinking it. I was making the point that alcohol has played a vital part in the european staple diet during certain points in history, which has caused our genetic line to develop a tolorance to hard liquor.

 

About 4600 years ago when humans first stopped living a nomadic life and started animal husbandry and built the first civilization (although it was wrong to call them European, it is where the European bloodline and culture originated) we had no idea about hygiene. Since as nomads it wasn't a problem, if mess accumulated they just moved to a new area.

 

From our unhygienic new life style and the cattle we were now herding our water source inevitability got polluted (kind of like how Europeans wiped out a lot of the aboriginals). This simple problem took down many different cultures. But one way some civilizations overcame this problem was by drinking fermented liquids (mildly alcohololic drinks) and also by drinking the milk of the same cattle that were polluting the water for a high source of protien to help overcome the new diseases from the unhygienic life style.

 

That's why even today most people who come from a nomadic bloodline are usually lactose intolerant and usually seem to have more toxic effects from hard liquor than people who come from a domesticated bloodline who have developed a tolerance to milk and hard liquor.

 

I do find it kind of funny that you think our first civilizations were somehow in anyway hygienic, . Maybe you should do a little resource about how people where living in London all the way up to world war 2.

 

Even in the late 1800's vitamin d deficiency was a huge problem with children living in cities like London since the sky was so thick with smoke from burning coal that the sun couldn't penetrate. 

 

What do you think used to happen to all that shit from all the horses in these cities?

 

Most cities around the world before the 20th century would of been seen as to filthy to inhabit by today's standards. It really has taken humans a long time to learn how to live a domesticated life style, hygienically.

 

Peace

[demistify]

HEY! YOU GUYS! WHERETHEFUCKAREWEGOIN' WITH THIS? The Ancient Greeks now!

 

Ok, Jabez, right of reply: that RACE is a meaningless term becomes clear when peering deeply into Culture. of course the word remains in our language! along with a whole lot of other antiquated words and ideas such as "hysterical", 'old wives tales' (and many many more). antiquated language is proof that culture exists for itself and not for the people who make it up. that is: culture, like family, is CONSERVATIVE. it's first action is always to preserve itself/maintain the status quo. whenever Culture is threatened ... and change threatens it ... Culture says: bugger the individual and his/her tastes/behaviours.

 

and: It seems to me from what I have observed that cannabis fits indigenous ways better than alcohol.

 

as for the rest: send me a pm if you would like to discuss this. I wouldn't mind if you do.

 

to the rest of you guys: direct links between todays behaviours and past behaviours cannot always be assumed. beware that you are not seeing what you want to see. while trade between neighbouring lands must have occurred, Culture's CONSERVATIVE nature works to inhibit or narrow potential cultural exchanges. so I don't assume mind altering weed automatically came with trade. mind altered individuals would have been a bit of a worry for society in general unless the mind altering occurred in conjunction with accepted ritual.

 

AND MONGY: what's mongyweed?

[freddie]

I personally believe it did

 

Mongy man, on what basis do you believe weed was not brought here by white man? or do you think it was brought here via Indo - PNG natives? that may be a possability.

 

Yes dave, there was trading between PNG and Indo people long before Europeans had any idea Australia even existed and cannabis was well known in those societies. I can't imagine cannabis wasn't involved at some time in those trades. It's also possible that mongyweed may have been a localised species of cannabis already growing here when Europeans arrived imo.

 

Peace MongyMan

There is no evidence of cannabis being in Australia before Europeans first planted hemp. It is true that certain Indonesians visited and traded in Northern Australian for the last 3000 years (that is where the dingo came from).

 

If cannabis was brought here earlier why wasn't it growing everywhere? In counties it where it does grow wild it grows like a weed. It would he incredibly well adapted to growing in many places in Australia. As the North was the only part that the Indonesians came to trade you would expect it to be everywhere. It isn't and there is no evidence it was in pre European days.

 

Why is there no record of cannabis use by indigenous Australians? Surely if it was brought here by traders they would have shown its uses to the locals. Aboriginals had an intricate knowledge of plants and their uses.

 

You wont find any Australian botanist who would back the view that cannabis was here before European settlement. Hemp was grown here in the 1800's near Sydney. This crop supposedly led to the famed Singleton crop of the '60's. The only wild crop found in Oz. There is an interesting read in wiki.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hunter_Valley_cannabis_infestation

In 1892, the Department of Agriculture distributed Cannabis sativa seeds to hundreds of farmers in New South Wales as an experiment in the cultivation of hemp due to the high prices of binding-twine at the time.[3] From 1840 to the early 1900s, Australians used cannabis as a medicinal herb and Cigares de Joy (cannabis cigarettes) were sold over the counter.[4]

[MongyMan]

MongyWeed Explained

 

Peace MongyMan