TWO new drug buses will hit NSW roads next month

[LaVey]

anyone used that mouthwash from AussieDetox before?

[bufo marinus]

The inmates in prison, often with substance problems, would be better off clean of drugs so they can get skilled. They need to be reeducated. Many are illiterate, lack people skills and are unemployable. To dope them to keep them sedate is not rehabilitation. If prison guards get caught profitting off such vulnerable people they should be doing time on the other side of the bars.

 

Id agree with a lot of what you say, but not with your view of the solution. The main problem with drug testing I feel is that it is such a ghoulish invasion of privacy. In this instance as opposed to employment testing this is forced also. There is no discretion with it, the circumstances surrounding the drug detection are never fully taken into consideration and personally I don't think enforcing a heroin user to use Methadone is such a great idea either. I'd rather see my taxes go towards a $5 hit of pure opiate products grown in Tassie than towards more underhanded lazy policing. Why it needs to be distributed as Morphine rather than heroin to addicts makes me laugh also at the authorities refusal to re-cross a petty moral boundary.

I have worked in a jail, and for long enough to see the literacy and social skills problem you noted, what a pity they aren't allowed to cultivate beautiful Cannabis plants as part of their underpaid work to learn how to nurture something before being allowed to smoke some to calm down and deal with the horrific life a lot have been through.

No this intervention idea is more big brother style intrusions society doesn't need you sure your not a shrink? A lot of them think they should run the world and are smarter than everyone else,... I get a whiff of psychology here

[OrbitTime]

Id agree with a lot of what you say, but not with your view of the solution. The main problem with drug testing I feel is that it is such a ghoulish invasion of privacy. In this instance as opposed to employment testing this is forced also. There is no discretion with it, the circumstances surrounding the drug detection are never fully taken into consideration

 

Well that's another topic and unfortunately my comments in this thread were in response to a number of extraneous examples which were not relevant to the topic of this thread. However I have made it clear that drug testing is necessary on certain jobs/careers for the greater good of society. I also think my school teacher example being exempt from drug tests may not be such a good idea when they're responsible for children. For example, if a parent loses a child to drowning at a school sports event and a teacher was proven negligent by proof of a drug test I'm sure there'd be hell to pay. In other words, choose a career where you can get high. No point shouting at town hall over this.

 

and personally I don't think enforcing a heroin user to use Methadone is such a great idea either. I'd rather see my taxes go towards a $5 hit of pure opiate products grown in Tassie than towards more underhanded lazy policing. Why it needs to be distributed as Morphine rather than heroin to addicts makes me laugh also at the authorities refusal to re-cross a petty moral boundary.

 

I'd rather see opiate addicts get off opiates. It's not like they will die if they go cold turkey. Where as chronic alcoholics can die unless withdrawal is under medical supervision. Further, given nicotine is the most difficult drug to quit and many do quit it (as I have quit it) then there's no reason for entertaining furnishing opiates on an ongoing basis to opiate addicts. However, like tobacco cessation, I'm for the government health to subsidise opiate cessation-drugs/programs because there are long term gains.

 

I have worked in a jail, and for long enough to see the literacy and social skills problem you noted, what a pity they aren't allowed to cultivate beautiful Cannabis plants as part of their underpaid work to learn how to nurture something before being allowed to smoke some to calm down and deal with the horrific life a lot have been through.

 

It would be better if they were to nurture permaculture gardens encompassing a wide range of genera and small livestock too. This, coupled with skills in trades and university correspondence, would build the responsibility and empathy necessary to constructing people skills to adjust to life outside. One of the greatest failings is their inability to get along with other human beings. One of the frightening truths is a number of these people have a record of cruelty to animals. That's all too often a precursor to cruelty to humans. Without building empathy in them you have no hope for change. Obviously there's a percentage where nothing can redeem them. People like Bilal Skaf, the Murphy Brothers, Ivan Milat et al.

 

No this intervention idea is more big brother style intrusions society doesn't need

 

It is necessary to the greater good of society. We are talking high-risk parolees. Lets stick to the topic please. People who have most certainly committed crimes of violence which is why they're high-risk. Society must be protected from them. One must take stock of the fact that the wider society is taking a punt on potential predators in their midst. If Dennis Fergusson had a history of drug use which lowered his sense of self control and was on this parole release program, would you seriously suggest his rights trump that of the community?

 

you sure your not a shrink? A lot of them think they should run the world and are smarter than everyone else,... I get a whiff of psychology here

 

Meh, for the record I'm not a psychologist.

[bufo marinus]

It is necessary to the greater good of society. We are talking high-risk parolees. Lets stick to the topic please. People who have most certainly committed crimes of violence which is why they're high-risk. Society must be protected from them. One must take stock of the fact that the wider society is taking a punt on potential predators in their midst. If Dennis Fergusson had a history of drug use which lowered his sense of self control and was on this parole release program, would you seriously suggest his rights trump that of the community?

 

 

 

Meh, for the record I'm not a psychologist.

 

Stick to the topic?

Get off your high horse you arrogant twat.

I'm sure you think your very clever, but tell me where does it mention violent? If you'd like to show everyone how clever you are stop making shit up.

Your argument is selectve, sensationalistic and without base, now you've shown you can't even read the topic at hand.

 

Wake up, you don't know everything

[Connekt]

Blah, blah, blah.

 

 

Yeah that's about all I heard too. What a load of deluded self-indulgent dribble you have managed to spout there, very good. For someone who has allegedly been growing for 20 years, you seem to know next to nothing about drugs and the people who take them.

 

Possibly you can provide some empirical evidence that suggests the majority get "aggressive" and "violent" when under the influence of amphetamines or when coming down from heroin? That's right, you cant because it's just a bunch of vague generalisations that dont amount to squat.

 

Using your analogy there would be monitors for the monitors who are monitoring us, just in case we are taking drugs which are baaaaaadddddd Because there's no way a conscious human being can decide for themselves or possibly use drugs in a safe and responsible manner is there?

 

Paranoid zealots like you are the reason this country is going down the shitter and we seem to enjoy less and less personal freedoms as time goes on. Much like guns, drugs dont kill people - people kill people. I think that if you had any real personal experience with these things, you would know that the people who become violent under the influence of alcohol and other drugs already have a predisposition to violence long before substances are involved.

 

At the end of the day, there are literally BILLIONS of people who take drugs in their daily life without harming or affecting anyone else. Why should the majority have to suffer for a minority of fuckwits who arent mentally strong enough to handle narcotic substances?

 

Fuck them and fuck you too you government tool.

[OrbitTime]

Stick to the topic?

Get off your high horse you arrogant twat.

I'm sure you think your very clever, but tell me where does it mention violent? If you'd like to show everyone how clever you are stop making shit up.

Your argument is selectve, sensationalistic and without base, now you've shown you can't even read the topic at hand.

 

Wake up, you don't know everything

 

Does the article need to say they're violent? Why else would they be high-risk parolees? I guess they all made it to gaol as mild mannered persons, right.

 

Not that civil discussion with you is possible due to goading and personal attacks.

[OrbitTime]

Yeah that's about all I heard too. What a load of deluded self-indulgent dribble you have managed to spout there, very good. For someone who has allegedly been growing for 20 years, you seem to know next to nothing about drugs and the people who take them.

 

I've met a number of people who should never have taken drugs. But people are free to make their own choices. It's the consequences of their choices that are of issue.

 

Possibly you can provide some empirical evidence that suggests the majority get "aggressive" and "violent" when under the influence of amphetamines or when coming down from heroin? That's right, you cant because it's just a bunch of vague generalisations that dont amount to squat.

 

It's a medical fact amphetamines can lead to violence. It's also known heroin addicts can do armed robbery to cover their costs to score. This is not news.

 

Using your analogy there would be monitors for the monitors who are monitoring us, just in case we are taking drugs which are baaaaaadddddd Because there's no way a conscious human being can decide for themselves or possibly use drugs in a safe and responsible manner is there?

 

 

Paranoid zealots like you are the reason this country is going down the shitter and we seem to enjoy less and less personal freedoms as time goes on. Much like guns, drugs dont kill people - people kill people.

 

 

I think that if you had any real personal experience with these things, you would know that the people who become violent under the influence of alcohol and other drugs already have a predisposition to violence long before substances are involved.

 

People with a propensity to violence will unleash when their self control deteriorates from intoxication. This is why high-risk parolees will be tested.

 

At the end of the day, there are literally BILLIONS of people who take drugs in their daily life without harming or affecting anyone else. Why should the majority have to suffer for a minority of fuckwits who arent mentally strong enough to handle narcotic substances?

 

That's a question I have asked myself for years. Which is why I don't like junkies, junk or hard drugs as there's always weak willed saps who lack self control.

 

Fuck them and fuck you too you government tool.

 

Another happy customer.

[bufo marinus]

Does the article need to say they're violent? Why else would they be high-risk parolees? I guess they all made it to gaol as mild mannered persons, right.

 

Not that civil discussion with you is possible due to goading and personal attacks.

 

Like I said it's not a good idea to start making shit up to make yourself look good and then hang shit on others for not paying attention.

Why else would they be high risk? If you don't know maybe you shouldn't be asserting things that your unsure of, makes you look like your talking out your arse

Keep pulling peoples posts apart to show your superiority and yes so far you do look like a self indulgent twat yes

Someone who grows as well as you should be smarter than this

I think you should be required to piss in a cup seeing as you also believe certain jobs require it. Yes, off you go, no one said your violent, but does anyone need to? Go and expose yourself and see how you enjoy the scrutiny.

People end up in jail for all sorts of reasons, and believe me the worst people in society are not in jail.

That stupid fucking bus will probably help prisoners fulfill parole conditions, it's what the bus is doing that's the problem, don't you get that? Are you that arrogant?... I think you are

[OrbitTime]

Like I said it's not a good idea to start making shit up to make yourself look good and then hang shit on others for not paying attention.

Why else would they be high risk? If you don't know maybe you shouldn't be asserting things that your unsure of, makes you look like your talking out your arse

 

Simple deduction. A percentage are in gaol for crimes that entail violence and so a percentage in a parole program will reflect similarly. They're not all there for drug smuggling, drug manufacture and fraud - crimes which perhaps may not entail violence. So don't clutch at straws.

 

Keep pulling peoples posts apart to show your superiority and yes so far you do look like a self indulgent twat yes

Someone who grows as well as you should be smarter than this

 

Flame away and be immature. Water off a duck's back to me as you're projecting and showing your insecurity.

 

I think you should be required to piss in a cup seeing as you also believe certain jobs require it. Yes, off you go, no one said your violent, but does anyone need to? Go and expose yourself and see how you enjoy the scrutiny.

 

There a number of jobs of high-responsibility that require substance free people. I've put this question before in this thread: do you want a free for all? Do you want surgeons coked out? Do you want truckies loaded on meth and not slept for days? Do you want cops (who carry glocks) loaded on MDMA and coke from the night before when they partied in clubs, who then shot dead a French schizophrenic guy who had a knife and was corned on a beach with no where to go? This actually happened and the two cops lost their jobs and faced crminal charges - they should be have been charged with manslaughter, if not murder! No, there can't be a free for all. There has to be rules and they have to be enforced. You want me to piss in a cup? Sure, but you'll have to find me in a career where high-responsibility mandates the testing. I'm not in such a career and I have no plans to be. Life is about choices and being reponsible for your choices.

 

People end up in jail for all sorts of reasons, and believe me the worst people in society are not in jail.

 

They're only worse because they're at large. Fortuneatly the people like Ivan Milat are few on the outside. Lets hope they are caught. Prisons do lock up scum. I certainly wouldn't leave my children in prisoners' care. Perhaps out of hubris you would for some sort of political statement.

 

 

That stupid fucking bus will probably help prisoners fulfill parole conditions, it's what the bus is doing that's the problem, don't you get that? Are you that arrogant?... I think you are

 

They're obliged by their parole program to be substance free so they can maintain self control without inebriation and thus hold down gainful employment and not slide back to criminal activity. When substances can jeopardise this then it is fair they're tested.