Hydroponics Setup

[hydrodude]

OK this should explain diff types of hydro setups :-) Taken directly from Luke Skywalkers recirculating setup thread :-) There may be a bit of useless info ion there just skip over it :-)

 

Hi nimer, just got back from a lovely dinner, and I'm all ready to help ya out. Okay, now. You were thinking of moving into hydro, yes? Alright. There are several different ways to go, and the concept of "hydroponics" is actually quite diverse in the end systems.

There are a few main types, and I'll go into them here.

1. Nutrient Film Technique or NFT. This is usually a pvc or similar plastic tube, anywhere from 100mm to 300mm wide, and of various shapes in cross-section, like tubular, rectangular, ovoid or triangular. Sometimes the "gullys" are made from something as simple as plastic sheeting over corrugated iron, creating many channels. Another piece of plastic on top keeps the plants in place. Other systems use standard pvc pipes, and strawberry growers favour this type. The principle of NFT is simple. If you supply the roots with a constant flow of a thin film of water/nutrient solution, then the plants can have access to a highly oxygenated, consistent supply of nutrients and water, and the flow of water will also carry away any plant wastes. The nutrient solution is usually stored in a large reservoir and recirculated back to the same reservoir to be pumped out again. The res. will have to be dumped and reformulated every two weeks or so to ensure the spectrum of nutes is good. Using an e.c. meter will also cut down on nutrient wastage. The channels are usually enclosed, raised up slightly on one side to assist with the nutrient flow, and most systems use small, 1 inch diameter "netpots" to support the plant. Some others also use 1 inch "growool" or "rockwool" cubes to do the same job. The use of NFT in growing mj? Well, some growers have had great success with large tables of NFT channels, with individual clones spaced out about 2 ft apart. This kind of system is very complex, however, and requires constant vigilance. If the pump fails the whole system will cease to function, as there will be no nutrient/water flow. And then there is the problem of oxygenation when the plants get older. As the root ball develops, the plants in the channel closest to the feeding end are able to monopolise the oxygen and nutrients from the water. The plants further down get sucessively less and less of both oxygen, and nutes, and this usually results in stunted plants. This problem can be alleviated slightly by using a larger channel, (300 mm for mj, at least, and I've seen bigger used for bigger plants.), and shorter lengths on the channels. But overall, as a method for growing weed? Not bad, but a lot of hassle for the newbie. Lets give it say, 4/10 overall.

 

2. Media based system, a.k.a. aggregate system, gravel culture. This is probably the simplest system of all the hydroponic methods to set up and run. It takes minimal maintenance, and can produce damn fine crops. Media systems are based on just that, using a "media" or soil replacement, which is usually an inert, sterile substance, to take the job of soil in delivering nutrients and providing anchorage for the plant. Media systems can be run in a recirculating system, where the nutrient solution is pumped to the pot from a reservoir, and then drains from the pot back to the reservoir. Or these can be set up as "run to waste" where the nutrient solution is applied to the pot and then no attempt is made to recover any excess nutrient. This second method isn't very environmentally friendly, not to mention watery sometimes! But usually run to waste systems in commercial setups are precisely controlled so that there is no "excess" and just the right amounts of nutrients are added. Of course, this isn't very practical for the average, indoor homegrower.... The recirculating system also has its drawbacks, the nutrient solution can become unbalanced if left for too long between changes, and unless you have an e.c. meter it's very hard to judge concentration. These systems also need periodic "flushing" where you apply about 3 - 4 times the capacity of the pots in fresh, ph adjusted water, and this dissolves the excess salts and washes them away. Once every month is usually enough. Now, as to the media itself, there are lots of types. Just to name a few here; perlite, vermiculite (usually only an additive to others, it's too wet to grow plants in on its own.), expanded clay, which is also known as LECA, hydrotron, hotrocks, and many others, scoria, a kind of volcanic rock, coco-fibre, which is an organic media made from coconut fibre, and then there's always good old growool, in cubes or slabs. Some people even use pebbles and normal gravel, although these can sometimes be contaminated and you really want something to be sterile. Some growers used to use sand as a media, but this is incredibly heavy when wet, and it's hydrophobic, which means that water runs straight through it. This is not conducive to growing good mj.... As to my preference? Well, I've used perlite to great sucess, just make sure that you get a good type that's chunky and coarse, and rinse it out with ph adjusted water too, as the dust can be choking when the stuffs dry. Perlite has great aeration and water holding properties, and does well as a media on it's own or as a mix with other media types. Coco/perlite mixes are fairly good, but the coco is organic in the end, and this has to be taken into account. Some growers use vermiculite as a mix with perlite too, sometimes as much as 50/50. But I don't like vermiculite very much, as I may have told you already. It degrades too quickly and holds too much water. Perlite also goes well in a mix with expanded clay, in ratios from one part expanded clay to ten perlite, all the way to one part perlite to ten expanded clay. I've had good results with about 30% expanded clay, 70% coarse perlite. This allows for extra drainage, but the perlite still holds enough water to do well. Making a media based system is fairly simple, you'll need a pot of some type, and if you want to recirculate you'll have to make sure you only have one drain hole (adequately sized, of course), so you can direct it back to the reservoir. The reservoir can stand on it's own, and then you'll have to top it up with fresh, ph adjusted water, as the plants use water and evaporation takes it's share, (a good lid on the res will help with this, and make sure your res is light proof too, or you'll have algae probs.), usually everyday. Or, you can have a second "feeder" reservoir which will automatically replenish the main "nutrient" reservoir by the way of gravity, (put the feeder res above the nute one) and a simple float valve, which will allow water through when the level in the res drops. This kind of "feeder" and "nute" double reservoir system is probably the easiest to run once set up, you only have to replenish the feeder tank maybe once a week or so with only a couple of plants, and depending on the size. Obviously the bigger the tank, the less often you'll have to replenish it. If you want to know anymore about setting up a recirculating double or single reservoir system then just give me a hoi and I'll go into it in more depth... This is probably going to be the easiest system to get your ears wet with. It also produces excellent weed, as good as any other method.

 

On to the number 3. DWC or Deep Water Culture. This system is based on using no media at all! The roots hang down into a nutrient solution, and this solution is oxygenated constantly by way of an airpump, like the aquarium type. This oxygen, dissolved in the water allows the roots to access the nutrients because without air, roots die, and so do plants. Without the air pump this system does not work. Some people use rafts to hold the plants in place, others use netpots sitting in the lids of buckets. These bucket DWC systems are often called bubblers. These sytems also use the splashing effect of the bubbles of air breaking the surface of the water to also feed and water the plant. This "splashing" can also be acheived with ultrasonic foggers, and some small sprinkler sytems, which then takes you from DWC into "Aeroponics" Don't bother with aeroponics, it's not worth the effort. Now, don't get me wrong, bubblers can produce some great results. With careful control, and attention to detail, DWC will perform magnificently. However, if you can't be there all the time, or you don't think that you have the time or desire to put together and maintain such a system, then don't bother. DWC is touted as "easy" and "simple" when in reality it is actually probably the hardest of the hydroponic methods to master. DWC is not for the newbie! Too much can, and quite often will go wrong.

 

So, what do I think you should go for? (And remember, this is no substitute for your own research, mind.) Well,

I'd have to say that a simple, recirculating expanded clay or perlite media based system would be both the easiest

to get the hang of, as well as the most bud for your buck, so to speak. I setup a small cabinet, 600mm x 600mm x

1800mm under 400w hps last year, and the whole thing, light included, cost me less than $400 to set up. If you take out the light, and some other stuff you already have, then I'd say you'd be looking at around $50 or so if you want to build a simple system yourself. The expanded clay or perlite isn't included in this.. If you want to set something like this up, just pm me and give me an email addy to send to. I'll give you a full list of required tools and items, and we'll see what we can do to get you up and running.

 

Whew!!!! I hope that made sense! Anyway, I'll talk to you soon mate, probably tomorrow, eh? Have a good one....

[Buster]

Great info there Nimer/Luke.

 

Have you got the instrustions for the system that Luke made or a link if it's already been posted here. I'm very intrested in seeing the instructions to this as, as good as bubblers sound they don't seem as simple as the recirculating system Luke described.

 

 

Buster.

[hydrodude]

OK Click here for the instuctions for the recriculating system. You can also see mine which is excat as described but with no filler resi. QUite a good system so far very happy with it.

 

 

BTW LS i made a few changes i will PM u and u can add them if u like. Only minor things

[white_cluster]

BEfore coming here i spent prolly 2 months studing every bit of information and found alot of conflicting info. If i were your Rovelive i would go to overgrow (sorry WC) and read the grow FAQ"S then go and look through pipeman's thread and hava look at mine u might get somemore 1st hand info. After that come back and i am sure we will be more then happy to help :-D

Nimer mate, you cant give that much help anyway, your on your first grow mate, you don't know if the advice your giving rovelive is gonna be good or not until you've harvested. My first indoor crops we're all based off High Times and Cannabis Culture magazines. They had all the information I needed to setup a crop and grow some buds. But that don't mean its good info. I really learnt to grow when I met some very experienced growers and had some good talks with them and got info tailored to my needs.

 

Of course there is no conflicting info in overgrows FAQ's, that is because there is one opinion for each subject, that doesn't mean there aren't easier or better ways to go about things. But there is alot of bullshit to fuck aussie growers around, people will go over to overgrow and come back thinking they have to make special nutrient mixes when australia has an abundunt supply of Marijuana Specific nutes. Heaps of shit to fuck people up.

 

Anyway, I only just woke up, pissed off cos my missus is a psycho. I'll get back on tonight and answer your questions rovelive and maybe some others will as well so you can have a bunch of info.

 

That wont include shit like DWC is no good for newbies, I 100% recommend DWC for any newbie who won't have heat problems, it is easy as piss. I've used a heap of systems DWC, SWC + drippers, drippers, Flood and Drain. and DWC is much easier than any of those methods.

[rovelive]

Hey thanks everyone.

And white_cluster that will be great.

 

Now i will gather the info all of you have said and go from there.

Thanks heaps.

Bye

[white_cluster]

On to the number 3. DWC or Deep Water Culture. This system is based on using no media at all! The roots hang down into a nutrient solution, and this solution is oxygenated constantly by way of an airpump, like the aquarium type. This oxygen, dissolved in the water allows the roots to access the nutrients because without air, roots die, and so do plants. Without the air pump this system does not work. Some people use rafts to hold the plants in place, others use netpots sitting in the lids of buckets. These bucket DWC systems are often called bubblers. These sytems also use the splashing effect of the bubbles of air breaking the surface of the water to also feed and water the plant. This "splashing" can also be acheived with ultrasonic foggers, and some small sprinkler sytems, which then takes you from DWC into "Aeroponics" Don't bother with aeroponics, it's not worth the effort. Now, don't get me wrong, bubblers can produce some great results. With careful control, and attention to detail, DWC will perform magnificently. However, if you can't be there all the time, or you don't think that you have the time or desire to put together and maintain such a system, then don't bother. DWC is touted as "easy" and "simple" when in reality it is actually probably the hardest of the hydroponic methods to master. DWC is not for the newbie! Too much can, and quite often will go wrong.

geez thats a pretty grim view of bubblers, I wonder how much experience with bubblers you had before coming to that point of view??? Bubblers are one of the easiest, problem free systems. In my opinion drippers are alot harder and more maintenance then a bubbler setup, feed lines and drippers can clog with salt buildup, flushing is more of a neccessity, resevoir needs to be lower than the plants taking up valuable headroom, it takes a while to learn the right rates of waterflow for each growth stage, etc......

 

And what is hard about putting the system together????

 

Basically the waterfarm system was made by GH to be an easy and very efficient way to keep plants and thats exactly what it is. It runs itself and could be visited weekly if thats the way you'd like to grow. The way I run my system it would be well suited to a person in a wheelchair or someone with a bad back, I like to keep my system as easy as possible so I can put my concentration into my plants, not my system.

 

As for aeroponics not being worth the effort, that depends who you are, there is no denying it is an amazing system and is fairly well suited to high yield indoor SOG crops, sure it would be hard work, but if you want the most grams per watt its probably the way to go. Same with NFT they both are systems that deserve 10/10, they are ideal for commercial cannabis farming.

 

As I've said I've actually personally used a few different systems. I've never used NFT or aero (except in cloning) so I can't really comment on that.

 

Anyway, I think the best system for a newbie is probably flood and drain (ebb and flow in US) or DWC/bubblers. As these systems pretty much run themselves and give great results. But DWC is a bad way to go if you plan to grow from seeds.

[Paranoid]

Well i have a rough idea of what i wanna do now.

 

Hope you can help me with this as this is going to help me out alot thanks.

 

 

 

What are the different types of hydroponic systems EBB n Flow, Drip, NFT and any others.

If someone can say the difference and also others i will be very thankfull.

 

Go with DWC buckets, Very easy and good on nutes.

 

What area of space do you have in mind ?

Well i am hoping something about 1 1/2 Metres High.

What are its dimensions (Width And Height).

1 1/2 Metres Height - 1 Metre Wide.

 

For a space 1m x 1m x 1m high you will need a minimum of 400w and will hold 4 plants no probs.

 

 

 

Fans.

Do i need a fan in the bottom to let the air in and one at top letting air out is that right or .. ?

 

Mainly a exhaust fan at top to remove heat/humidity, I just have holes in the bottom of the box to let air in.

 

Guages

What guages do i need eg - PH and TDS.

 

I use a Truncheon to test nutes and use a el-cheapo liquid ph test kit.

 

 

 

 

 

 

How much wattage do i need per square foot ?

As i need to know.

 

Its around 40 i think, Could be 50.

 

 

Thankyou, If i get a few replies this is really going to help me out and hopefully many others on getting a setup.

Thankyou Bye.

 

Oh, And on the Airoponics, Thats what i use, It was my very first hydro experience before i even had a computer, So no online help, No test equipment, No fans but very good results, Now i'm online i found you need fans, Test equipment etc and have had excellent results.

I dont even baby this system, Just check on everything every second day.

At 1 time the ph was rising, So i got it as low as possible and went away for a week, When i came back it was up to 7 and still running healthy.

Edited June 1, 2003 by Paranoid

[rovelive]

Hello.

Thanks for helping me out alot guys.

I have about 20Mb of faq's, threads and information i have found to go through.

 

So i got alot of reading ahead of me.

But thanks.

 

Bye

[Guest]

Good luck Rove, here's my 2 cents...

 

If I was in your position with 500 bucks to spend, I'd go on a 4 plant, 600w (HPS) DWC system.

 

For info about DWC pumps, see pipeman's thread "Which pumps for DWC?" He also has some nice threads which go into in depth construction of a DWC resevoir system.

 

Do i need a fan in the bottom to let the air in and one at top letting air out is that right or .. ?

 

Yup, that would be beneficial. I think they're best if they're on cycles, not on 24/7. And also an oscillating fan to circulate air in around the room. You'll learn more about that as you read up on the venting process.

 

Seed/clones? Read up and see if you'd be comfortable with the clone rooting process. If not, go seeds.

 

Medium? Expanded clay, if you've read anything about DWC you'll know this by now.

 

Guages? Depends on how accurate you want to be. I'd get them all - for relative air temp, ph, nute levels, water temp, humidity... but that's just me.

 

What is the best heater to use and what heat etc ?

 

Heheh your 600w HPS should do a good job of that Depending on your space, and unless you live in the arctic wastes, overheating will be your issue - that's where good venting comes in.

 

As for your other things... For reflective material you could go cheap and use the dull side of aluminium foil or go all out and buy some mylar. Carbon filter, well, I simply wouldn't bother for a grow that size. The 600 watter will give you plenty of light there, depending on how you space your plants will dictate the wattage per sq.ft and how this affects yield.

 

That's about it! If any of you growers see anything wrong with my explanation, feel free to go ahead and correct me... I'm still planning my first grow after 4 months of research and would like to know if I've got anything fundamentally wrong here.

[rovelive]

Hey thanks Bubba for the reply.

Very informative.

 

I will post some more info on the setup i will probaly be using soon.

 

Thanks bye.

Edited June 1, 2003 by rovelive