Restoring the Balance - (title of an old triple J program)

[Dragonfan]

I agree with most of what danoz says accept the support for the current legal status. i also think that some of the evidence against pot in the media has been overstated, especially compared to alcohol.

 

The current legal and social status of pot has a harmful effect on users, both physically and mentally. Pot users are becoming more excluded from participating in society. Many jobs require drug testing (regardless of whether you are stoned on the job or not); some occupations exclude those with a criminal record. The negative press reports turn society against pot users and also erode the self esteem of users and the very fact that it is illegal forces many to people to be cautious of any personal interaction (due to security worries). All this has a nasty effect on a persons mental condition. The more people are excluded from normal everyday interactions the worse their mental health will be. The biggest problem with psychology today is that it tends to ignore these social aspects.

 

I'm pretty sure that if you research countries or states where cannabis is decriminalised you will find no increase in usage. A lot of people will take drugs because the are illegal. Its a rebellion thing.

I'm one who suffers the negatives of being unable to medicate legally with the only medicine I've found as efficacious for what ails me [half of which was brought on by being exposed to too many chemicals in foods etc (for my system) and pharmachemicals which have done me nothing but harm in the long term].

 

Why should I be denied some relief from otherwise untreatable conditions on the basis that keeping Marijuana even just medically illegal only helps those who are corrupt? I'm a law abiding, tax paying citizen yet I have NO rights when it comes to suffering . . . I just have to cop it sweet?

 

And don't start me on alcohol, I was married to an alcoholic who suffered schizophrenia . . . great mix there . . . and I saw first hand the down side of many a licit and illicit drug whilst working in the Health Department in the state I now live in, specifically the Alcohol Tobacco and Other Drugs clinics [the Methadone Clinics were the most informative for 'street level' info on drugs causing mental health problems and/or exacerbating them].

 

The current legislation in this country does more harm than good . . . encourages corruption and leaves sufferers of unrelenting pain out on a limb . . . so I DON'T agree with current legislation in any way, shape or form . . .

[danoz]

i will read this link entheofarm. - thanks - im always open to more views it can be hard to find such papers

 

Bufo prehaps you could offer a more inciteful interpretation - good constructive argument you present (PS dont get angry at this im just being a smart arse - chill if u dont care then never mind)

 

Maybe i could be swayed into thinking making it legal would be better. i know when i started growing i only grew cause it was a kinda thrill rebellious. i grow for diff reasons now. I like the drug reforms the i thinks its the greens that put forward - basically legalise personal quantities of most things. Still im not convinced. The alcohol problems you all so predictibly brought up are problems associated with being really pissed. A problem perhaps created by alcohol marketing. What problems may occur if weed was subject to the same marketing - food shortages? Alcohol when enjoyed like most mature people doesnt really effect you at all.

and there is no doubt that weed can be a usefull medicine with less side effects than synthetic opiates.

 

Maybe it should be legal. BUT my stance on it not being as innocent a drug as alot of people of here protest stands when i get a spare hour i would like to post a new thread about the nero science of it. Although some nero science also sez its beneficial for some people, and may improve memory. It improves memory by improving the pathways to forgetting. Forgetting things is a very useful memory function for improving memory - apparently. Come to think about it i think i herd this dude on youtube talk about this too.

 

when i was living on campus at uni i really wanted to raise money and pay for a free all-you-drink alcohol night for a building that housed 40 students (A wing) and all you can smoke cannibus in another (B wing) then record my findings in text and video. im sure it would of gotten media attention - there were certain problems however for example generation y (i think thats what they are) are really scared of weed. I still have connections on campus if people would be interested in donating money or product i could try and make it happen? what are peoples thoughts on that? It would be kept a secret till results were available of course.

Edited October 28, 2008 by danoz

[phineas]

hi danoz, for my 2 cents i gotsta say as adults it comes across hypocritical to disallow poeple to choose whether they can enjoy pot freely without the residual thought that they are doing something wrong in the eyes of the law.

i come from a family of publicans, i grew up in one of the family pubs in a small town in qld., i guess you could say i have spent many years in alchohol related field work, i now manage a bar in vic....booze is very bad even in moderation...

however it does affect some people differently and more profoundly than others

i drink, i enjoy it, i have absolutely no doubt that it can be bad, being an adult i can choose when and how much i can have.

as adults i think its the individuals choice if something is not for them, not to take part or face the physical or mental consequences.

this argument may extend to other substances, this reply is however in response to booze and pot.

research is good tho.

i may be a little blinded by my love of the herb.

phin

[thedarkestone]

Spot on Dragonfan. Taking pharmaceuticals has damaged my body big time. It should be our right to medicate ourselves how we see fit. I'm seen as a criminal in wider society because I choose to use a herb instead of a bunch of tablets. The current legislation is totally unfair and continues to marginalise those who are already on the outer.

At the end of the day, there aren't many things in this world that aren't harmless. Drink enough water in one go and you may harm yourself. But seriously, compared to what is legal, pot is very harmless. Hey, western society causes way more mental issues than pot ever will.

[Thylacine]

Edit: Just to add danoz, I found some research information that is really factual because it's on a data base no one else can look at and costs a lot, it's priceless even. It says prohibition causes mental health issues and kills people.

 

 

ahahaha

 

 

ol danoz eh.....but wait theres more!! ......more rubbish, sorry mate but some of the stuff is too funny!..

 

 

No companys continue to make money when their products kill people huh!!....didnt that seem strange when you typed it? Hard to fathom if you actually believe it or not and if you do what that means for the rest of your argument against weed.

 

 

Ive seen it before, if the do gooders had a chance to rubbish cannabis they would have that information out there in a heartbeat. Fact is there are countless studies, some commissioned by gov's that are designed to show cannabis in a negative light, simple as that. And if the study turns out to show the opporsite of what they were after, then they bury it.[or at least try,FOI fucks them up somewhat]

 

Peace and mung beans

[mull]

There is strong evidence that some people in a given population may suffer long term side effects from moderate use.

 

Hello danoz, can I just have the scissors out of the free steak knife set please mate?..

 

Just a joke, clear the fog.. (an see you beat me to the punch thylacine )

 

Now where's the evidence please, thats a big, broad, vague statement?..

like me saying I have very strong evidence, that chronic use of cannabis, may cause no long term effects.

Also you've slightly missed the meaning of the word propaganda bro. There's positive and negative cannabis propaganda, coming from the 'beliefs' of those making doctrines.

As to be expected, usually negative from the prohibitionists and positive from the rest.

 

Now to a story eh..

 

Chatting to an old couple yesterday, very straight, conservative, anti all illegal drugs... they live in a glasshouse throwing stones for a living like many do today..

So the conversation got onto the 'underbelly' series and the gangland stuff in melb couple years back etc.

 

The fella says ah drug dealers ruin kids lives, they should all be shot, or hung up. Kill them all.

 

I didn't answer this, but thought of all the poor publicans swinging from trees and the milkbar owners shot for selling tobacco.. while all the polititions line up to die for sanctioning this system..

 

Sound fair? Wha..??

 

Public opinions toward illegal drugs in general come from the media, not often exposure or experience.

Often blame is laid conveniently on an illegal drug, just to avoid any responsibility for bad behaviour. Murder, cruelty, greed are all bad behaviour.

They are here now and flourish as part of this system where the innocuous herb cannabis remains valuable while prohibited.

Even if this just keeps some things more or less competitive.

 

So this is the balance eh??

 

[Frazz]

Please may God spare us from highly educated newbies in this life who have been nowhere and done nothing ...

 

[Major Overgrow]

Also my GF has a phD in psych and was able to assist in my interpretation of some difficult reading.

I see your problem

ROFL. That says it all.

[entheofarm]

danoz, what you have failed to research is the fact this site does not lead us to believe cannabis is not harmful. The following is clearly displayed in the medicinal cannabis threads.

 

There is no pharmacological free lunch in cannabis or any drug. Negative reactions can result. A small percentage of people have negative or allergic reactions to marijuana. Heart patients could have problems, even though cannabis generally relieves stress, dilates the arteries, and in general lowers the diastolic pressure. A small percentage of people get especially high heart rates and anxieties with cannabis. These persons should not use it. Some bronchial asthma sufferers benefit from cannabis; however, for others it may serve as an additional irritant.

 

I believe it is from Jack Herer, The Emperor Wears No Clothes, another book for you to read.

 

You owe OS an apology I thinks

 

Your views are very similar to those preached by the multi-million dollar National cannabis prevention mob set up by NSW health and the NSW uni, a blatant waiste of tax payers money inciting ill-informed uni students into applying for a grant of aid if they demonize cannabis.

 

well National cannabis prevention and information centre http://ncpic.org.au/

[danoz]

I WAS QUOTED AS SAYING

No companys continue to make money when their products kill people huh!!....didnt that seem strange when you typed it? Hard to fathom if you actually believe it or not and if you do what that means for the rest of your argument against weed.

 

I Should of put pharmacetical companies and added directly killed people. yeah it was a bit vague - a tobacco company would be an obvious example of a company.

WHAT I WAS TRYING TO SAY WAS

There are many examples of drug companies doing bad. But what i was trying to say is that pharama companies are big business, and these corporations are in the game of making money. Its not a good marketing strategy to kill people with your products. its not in the share holders interest. Thats the point i was trying to make. Especially in the last ten years with the invention of the internet with increased information flow. bad products down shares.

 

In reply to another comment - yes it was a vague state - moderate use can be harmfull or whatever i said. Thats because nero science is vague cause its so complicated. and an important aspect of science is that it does not over extend conclusions given a certain set of results. therefore this was a safe statement given the results of this particular study.

In two weeks i will have more time to present proper constructed arguments - fuck ill reference them.

 

In reply to enthefarm - again thanks always open to constructive argument - i think your right i was not aware of the medical cannibus threads. Perhaps i should rephrase to "as some bloggers on this site would have you belive. I was refering to the general chit chat and the culture.

 

Dont know why i would bother but ....

 

To Frazzle and Major Overgrow - ROLF - no it does not say it all, its just a lazy meaninless counter productive argument so what is your argument exactly?- you just sound bitter because you dont have an education (this might not be the case). This is a discussion about WEED pysch effects and law. Its not about you making yourself feel really wise by claiming that someone you dont know has "been no where or done nothing" - not very wise to judge is it? sounds like you have "been no where done nothing" and thats why you must create an illusion for yourself by pushing your insecurities onto others. You have enough spare time to post over 2000 threads and moderate a site for stoners!! mmm google doesnt count as life experience (can he kick me dam i think he can - dude im just fucking with you cause i was offended) lets agree to keep to topic and not get personal. Peace

Edited October 29, 2008 by danoz