Creating Super Stealth Mutant Bud!

[Token Jet]

Sounds intriguing ekul, add my name to the list of people who want to see pics

[bufo marinus]

Get a grip.

I said that useless piece of information was floating round in my head. I was being self derogatory.

As to me suggesting your young and stupid well, stupidity comes in all ages, thats your own self concious problem, I would have taken my post to mean whoa up a minute before you go fucking around with stuff that can alter your chromosones but whatever, sook.

This is amusing;

i mean if i had read the literature rather than seeing it with my own eyes and seen that only 1 in a 100 treated plants survived (which is wrong anyway) then i probably wouldn't bother either.

How can you claim something to be untrue when you haven't read the book it came out of? You know nothing about it? Did I mention your arrogance?

 

This is quite funny also;

However i do admit I didn't know that this colchicine and autumn crocus thing had already been thought about before, i have heard about the gout tablet thing before but i thought that was to turn bad pot good, and i thought it was a myth. All i know is when i saw that plant in all its deformed glory i knew that this was a good thing.

You thought it could turn bad pot good? So, unless someone had taken you to task over this, you would have quite happily what? soaked your buds in poison?

You saw the plant in all it's deformed glory and you knew it was a good thing?.... Now, just back the truck up, have a think about those couple of statements, and then say to yourself, "Maybe I am young and stupid?" "Thank you bufo"

As for the pics and some real debate, of course I'm interested.

[johnsmith123]

How can you claim something to be untrue when you haven't read the book it came out of? You know nothing about it? Did I mention your arrogance?

He's claiming its untrue because his friend got a much better rate of survival. Seems like a fair claim to me.

 

You thought it could turn bad pot good? So, unless someone had taken you to task over this, you would have quite happily what? soaked your buds in poison?

The buds aren't being 'soaked in poison'. From what I understand the solution is added in the early stages of development.

 

I don't want to add any fuel to what already seems to be a bitter argument, but if you are so old and wise you should demonstrate it by not being so rude and aggresive. Accusations of stupidity and arrogance are entirely unecessary. Ekul is excited about what could possibly be a very big development. He may be wrong. He may not be. Either way, he should be treated with respect. If you disagree with his points, state why you disagree without resorting to insults. Otherwise a discussion turns into a battle, and a heated argument isn't going to yield any good information.

 

[/lecture]

[bufo marinus]

Listen, I never started calling anyone stupid.

I've said what I knew about colchicine.

I never said I was old and wise.

I usually give everyone a fair go.

So go fuck yourself, or better still, why not drink some colchicine and post some pics?

 

 

Colchicine

From Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

 

Colchicine

Systematic (IUPAC) name

N-((7S)-5,6,7,9-tetrahydro-

1,2,3,10-tetramethoxy-9-

oxobenzo(a)heptalen-7-yl)-

acetamide

Identifiers

CAS number 64-86-8

ATC code M04AC01

PubChem 6167

Chemical data

Formula C22H25NO6

Mol. mass 399.437

Pharmacokinetic data

Bioavailability ?

Metabolism ?

Half life ?

Excretion ?

Therapeutic considerations

Pregnancy cat.

 

X

Legal status

 

RX/POM

Routes Oral tablets

 

Colchicine is a highly poisonous natural product and secondary metabolite, originally extracted from plants of the genus Colchicum (Autumn crocus, Colchicum autumnale, also known as the "Meadow saffron"). Originally used to treat rheumatic complaints and especially gout, it was also prescribed for its cathartic and emetic effects. Its present medicinal use is mainly in the treatment of gout; as well, it is being investigated for its potential use as an anti-cancer drug. It can also be used as initial treatment for pericarditis and preventing recurrences of the condition. In neurons, axoplasmic transport is disrupted by colchicine.

Contents

* 1 History

* 2 Pharmacology

o 2.1 Biological function

o 2.2 Colchicine as medicine

o 2.3 Side effects

o 2.4 Toxicity

o 2.5 Botanical use

* 3 References

* 4 External links

 

History

 

Colchicum extract was first described as a treatment for gout in De Materia Medica by Padanius Dioscorides in the first century CE.

 

The colchicine alkaloid was first isolated in 1820 by the two French chemists P.S. Pelletier and J. Caventon.[1]

 

It was later identified as a tricyclic alkaloid, and its pain-relieving and anti-inflammatory effects for gout were linked to its ability to bind with tubulin.

 

Pharmacology

 

Biological function

 

Colchicine inhibits microtubule polymerization by binding to tubulin, one of the main constituents of microtubules. Availability of tubulin is essential to mitosis, and therefore colchicine effectively functions as a "mitotic poison" or spindle poison.[2] Since one of the defining characteristics of cancer cells is a significantly increased rate of mitosis, this means that cancer cells are significantly more vulnerable to colchicine poisoning than are normal cells. However, the therapeutic value of colchicine against cancer is (as is typical with chemotherapy agents) limited by its toxicity against normal cells.

 

Apart from inhibiting mitosis, a process heavily dependent on cytoskeletal changes, colchicine also inhibits neutrophil motility and activity, leading to a net anti-inflammatory effect. Colchicine also inhibits urate crystal deposition, which is enhanced by a low pH in the tissues, probably by inhibiting oxidation of glucose and subsequent lactic acid production in leukocytes. The inhibition of uric acid crystals is a vital aspect on the mechanism of gout treatment.

 

Colchicine as medicine

 

Colchicine is Food and Drug Administration (FDA)-approved for the treatment of gout and also for familial Mediterranean fever, secondary amyloidosis(AA), and scleroderma. It is also used as an anti-inflammatory agent for long-term treatment of Behçet's disease.

 

The Australian biotechnology company Giaconda has developed a combination therapy to treat constipation-predominant irritable bowel syndrome which combines colchicine with the anti-inflammatory drug olsalazine.

 

The British drug development company Angiogene is developing a prodrug of colchicine, ZD6126[3] (also known as ANG453) as a treatment for cancer.

 

Colchicine has a relatively low therapeutic index.

 

Colchicine is "used widely" off-label by naturopaths for a number of treatments, including the treatment of back pain.[4]

 

Side effects

 

Side effects include gastro-intestinal upset and neutropenia. High doses can also damage bone marrow and lead to anaemia. Note that all of these side effects can result from hyper-inhibition of mitosis.

 

Toxicity

 

Colchicine poisoning has been compared to arsenic poisoning: symptoms start 2 to 5 hours after the toxic dose has been ingested and include burning in the mouth and throat, fever, vomiting, diarrhea, abdominal pain and kidney failure. Death from respiratory failure can follow. There is no specific antidote for colchicine, although various treatments do exist.

 

Botanical use

 

Since chromosome segregation is driven by microtubules, colchicine is also used for inducing polyploidy in plant cells during cellular division by inhibiting chromosome segregation during meiosis; half the resulting gametes therefore contain no chromosomes, while the other half contain double the usual number of chromosomes (i.e., diploid instead of haploid as gametes usually are), and lead to embryos with double the usual number of chromosomes (i.e. tetraploid instead of diploid). While this would be fatal in animal cells, in plant cells it is not only usually well tolerated, but in fact frequently results in plants which are larger, hardier, faster growing, and in general more desirable than the normally diploid parents; for this reason, this type of genetic manipulation is frequently used in breeding plants commercially. In addition, when such a tetraploid plant is crossed with a diploid plant, the triploid offspring will be sterile, which may be commercially useful in itself by requiring growers to buy seed from the supplier, but also can often be induced to create a "seedless" fruit if pollinated (usually the triploid will also not produce pollen, therefore a diploid parent is needed to provide the pollen). This is the method used to create seedless watermelons, for instance. On the other hand, colchicine's ability to induce polyploidy can be exploited to render infertile hybrids fertile, as is done when breeding triticale from wheat and rye. Wheat is typically tetraploid and rye diploid, with the triploid hybrid infertile. Treatment with colchicine of triploid triticale gives fertile hexaploid triticale.

 

When used to induce polyploidy in plants, colchicine is usually applied to the plant as a cream. It has to be applied to a growth point of the plant, such as an apical tip, shoot or sucker. Seeds can be presoaked in a colchicine solution before planting. As colchicine is so dangerous, it is worth noting that doubling of chromosome numbers can occur spontaneously in nature, and not infrequently. The best place to look is in regenerating tissue. One way to induce it is to chop off the tops of plants and carefully examine the lateral shoots and suckers to see if any look different. [5]

 

[edit] References

 

1. ^ Pelletier PS, Caventon J. Ann. Chim. Phys. 1820;14:69

2. ^ Cyberbotanica: Colchicine

3. ^ Description of ZD6126 on US National Cancer Institute website retrieved 26th April 2008

4. ^ "Deaths sound an Rx alert", The Portland Tribune, Apr 20, 2007

5. ^ Deppe, Carol (1993). Breed Your own Vegetable Varieties. Little, Brown & Company. p.150-151. ISBN 0-316-18104-8

[ekul]

The gout tablet thing that i had heard was that if you treated seeds that were known to yield bad pot you could treat the seeds with the tablets and then grow the seeds and it would yield good pot. As for spraying buds with gout tablets it would probably be cheaper to buy good buds, but i think you already knew what i was talking about bufo, grasping at straws me thinks. The gout tablet information that i read was in the same publication that stated that dry ice treatmment of buds would increase their thc levels and that is why i thought it was a myth.

As for being arrogant, I was trusting that you can read bufo and that you actually repeated the correct figures. As my friend had a drastically different survival rate it would be safe to assume that the literature is incorrect, at least in this instance.

 

"So go fuck yourself, or better still, why not drink some colchicine and post some pics?"

 

Drinking a cup of colchicine, why would i want to that? All i'm saying is the small amount of colchicine that is used at the begining would probably not be in the plants by the time they are harvested and if it was, then it would HAVE be a miniscule dose, because, as i have stated above, marijuana does not start producing a foriegn chemical just because it has been treated with that said chemical, by god it would be sweet if it did. I do agree that colchicine is a dangerous chemical, thankyou for pointing that out for me. In further experiments i will most definately use latex gloves when handling the crocus bulbs and the resultant crocus 'tea'.

So that i can start playing around with this chemical sooner i am going to plant a poppy patch in the next week with treated seeds. I'm not sure what this will do as these plants are already basically invisble to the unknowing eye, maybe it will increase pod production or something. I've already got one patch so that will be my control.

For all those who have never grown poppies it is the sweetest thing to do. It grows in the exact opposite season to cannabis. It grows in winter and flowers when the daylight hours start INCREASING. If you go to the effort to scrape the pods and make opium you can mix this with your hash to make OPIATED hash... for free. I've grown it every year now since i was 15. The best seeds to get are the white ones from indian spice stores. I have a feeling that they have made the importation of opium poppy seeds illegal because this year i could only find one shop that sold them. I bought the remaining stock that they had. $20 got me enough seed to plant the whole of australia!! I only discovered about 2 years ago that mixing hash and opium together works, before that i would either make a tea out of a few pods or a little of the scraped resin on top of a cone. It is the best combo and you can use the same patch of land for both crops. You don't use the poppy leaves so you just dig pretty much the whole plant into the soil which builds up alot of humus and improves soil texture and quality.

 

I think this argument that has occured in this thread is completely unnecessary, all i wanted to do was tell people about this plant that my friend has. I think it is cool anyway. The only thing that needs to be done now is smoke some of these buds, because if it isn't good smoke then there really is no point to the plant and then this whole idea is stupid. But if an idea is dismissed before it is even trialled, well thats just ignorance. I can't see why the plants would have low THC but maybe while fucking with the genetics like this the plants stop making THC. I'm pretty sure potency is a dominant gene tho, as is fingered leaves now that i think about it. hmmm. Ah well, the proof is, as they say 'in the pudding' so when i smoke some of the sweet cheeba i'll post results.

If i can procure a camera i will post some pics. Is there a guide on how to get photos off a camera and into a post somehow? I've never owned a digital camera, or a normal camera either, and i don't know how to put photos on the net.

[ekul]

Also bufo i missed something

"I usually give everyone a fair go"

"So go fuck yourself"

I really did piss myself when i read that.

[bufo marinus]

This argument started because you can't understand English, fool, but your too arrogant to listen so why keep going in circles??

What sort of Pharmacist are you anyway? Not a very good one I would say, if this is how much you know?

I'm sure you'll be posting pics of your Super Mutant Stealth strain as you develop and work with it,............. won't you? Like you said you were??

wake up BOY

[brick]

ekul This paragraph is from a book "The Connoisseurs Handbook of Marijuana" written by William Daniel Drake Jr.

 

"Colchicine is a highly poisonous substance. It can kill you. No research (at the time of writing 1971)is available on the effects of smoking or ingesting first generation Cannabis which has become polyploid through colchicine treatment. It is not known whether colchicine is metabolized or not. So only successive generations of Canabis-generations number two on out-should be considered safe."

 

That was 1971. Somewhere out there in cyber space you should be able to find out a lot more about colchicine. If you do research it, would be good if you could post the url's in here.

I don't believe in messing with mother nature's gift to us. That's me. It would be interesting stuff to learn about though. If they were doing this back then surely there must be someone else who has done it and recorded their findings. Good luck.

[ekul]

I looked up the Material Safety Data Sheet for colchicine.

http://www.sciencelab.com/xMSDS-Colchicine-9923531

 

LD50 in mice is 6mg/kg. LD50 is the dose at which 50% of the treated population will die.

A 75kg male would need to ingest 450mg to reach toxic levels. As this is nearly half a gram it would be impossible to get toxic colchicine poisoning from buds that have come from treated seeds. It can be assumed that you would still get sick at lower levels.

Another interesting thing that i did find on the MSDS is that colchicine decomposes when it boils. So that would mean that if you were smoking the buds from the treated seeds the colchicine would not even be able to be ingested via this method of administration. It would be absorbed if you were eating the marijuana however, but even then it would be questionable to whether or not colchicine levels would be high enough to make you sick.

So while it is safe to assume that smoking buds from treated seeds is fine, PROTECTIVE EQUIPMENT SHOULD BE USED WHILE WORKING WITH COLCHICINE. Colchicine can be absorbed through the skin and the poisoning from this substance sounds particularily nasty. Interestingly though, in the MSDS it says its not carcinogenic, maybe it means it hasn't been tested for this. And on another site it said autumn crocus has been used as a herbal remedy to treat cancer!!! I would not reccomend any form of ingestion of this plant.

 

On a few sites it said that colchicine levels in an average crocus bulb is 250mg. This is dangerously close to the LD50 so make sure you play it safe in your experiments people. Wear latex gloves, a long sleeved shirt (flannies are perfect funnily enough, it absorbs the liquid if you accidently spilll anything on yourself), and goggles/sunglasses. If you spill any liquid on yourself make sure you wash it off straight away. Anything that comes into contact with the bulbs should either not used to prepare food ever again or be thoroughly washed after use ie chopping boards, knives, pots used to prepare the tea etc. Check out the above link so that you understand the hazards of colchicine and play it safe.

[SukonmiSkunk]

smoking chems are a lot worse that ingesting them... its totally different,... and you cant smoke the first gen plants from the treatment.. they need to be seeded.. then grown out again... 1 in 100 of these seeds might sprout... and then 1 out of 100 may have taken the polyploidity.. its not a guarantee .. even if you treat the seeds.. the same thing.. cant smoke the plant.. it still needs to be seeded...

 

it does work... this is how they induce polyploidity in a lot of plants.. .. but as other plants are either grown for ornamental flowers.. or for food... its totally different.. and the levels may be ok.. for human consumption.. how i dont know.. as it seems to me that even putting the slightest amount of poison in your system cant be a good thing...

 

with MJ.. the end product will be smoked.. and this is where it gets dangerous to the system.. but as its only the first generation plant that contains the colchicine.. not sure if some trace elements may be carried to the seeds.. the books ive read say it doesnt... but id want to be 100% sure before i smoke anything... if you have the means to test the product for trace elements of colchicine then go for it... it is dangerous... and everything ive read on it has said its not really worth the trouble because of the unstability of the polyploidity... they even say that the seeds from the treated plant arent guaranteed to be polyploid... and if they are.. then the seeds from that may not be.. its very hard to get the polyploidity to stabilize for future generations...

 

so even if you do have the means to chemically test the product for trace elements of colchicine youll still need facilities to plant out literally 1000's of seedlings... not an easy thing to get away with in Australia... you may be able to clone a plant thats held its polyploidity... providing its free from any trace elements...

 

i certainly wouldnt want to be smoking ANY plant that has been treated...

 

good luck with it...