nutrient challange

[mullray]

You sound like one though.

[BentBuddha]

Hi All.

It could be clever marketing. Would be nice if the 5 leading hydro nute companies put their money where their mouths are and had a 'grow off', where nobody could dispute the results. Unlikely to happen tho. I'm no fan of DM, but i have to say, if every plant that used it went dark green, curled up and turned into a dwarf it's fair to say they would of went out of business yrs ago. Here's the link i got the article from:

 

http://www.cannabisculture.com/articles/3158.html

 

And here is the two youtube clips. At least i hope they are i haven't even watched them.

 

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vMVGfxSOMS0

 

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ienVv71M-rg

 

Enjoy

 

BB

[mullray]

Hi Bent Buddha, what would be the best way to get a sponsored grow off done by a neutral party? Someone we know is not connected in any way or form to the hydroponics industry.

 

I myself am prepared to put in $50.00 - $80 for one set of nutrients. Surely if I as a non nutrient person am prepared to pay why wouldn't these companies who claim their stuff is the hottest thing since sliced bread put up some free samples? Not putting them up only tells us they're full of it and scared that their products are going to come up second rate against a competitors.

 

What I'd like to see is Dutchmaster, Advanced Nutrients, and CANNA all lined up in a controlled trial against two lesser brands that aren't hyped up - 2 straight (unhyped) Australian brands. So come on, there must be some pretty confident manufacturers out there willing to take the plunge, especially Dutchmaster with their Gold which they tell us increases yields over all the top brands - with yield increases of 25%.

 

We at the site could choose the grower. I'm a scientist and while not be in plant science could easily set the sound parameters for a controlled crop trial.

 

No fancy additives - just straight nutes side by side in the same room so that the temps and everything else are exactly the same. All details of temp, humidity etc would need to be recorded at 4 hour intervals. If there are any additives they must be the same - a generic PK for instance used at the same rates at precisely the same times on precisely the same strains that are cut from a single mother plant.

 

I did some research on this Remo fellow and he is in the pocket of AN. If he isn't in the pocket of AN he looks that way so anything he does or says has to be viewed with some suspicion.

 

What I think guys is we should draft up a letter saying put up or shut up and make this letter available on the site. Those companies that don't send free samples we just write off as hype merchants and support those companies who do put their product where their mouths are. Or, we ourselves could pool money and do it ourselves. I'm in for one pack of nutrients for someone who is prepared to run this trial.

 

We could have a list of the best nutes that are recommended by OzStoners based on independent trials conducted by totally neutral non- hydro industry members. It would be mighty powerful advertising for the company who won - they'd make a fortune from it and yet you're telling me it would be hard to get them to contribute.

 

Thanks for the links. I will definitely look at them. And yes, Advanced is good. The question is, is it any better than any other nutrient?

[BentBuddha]

That would be an interesting trial. I wouldn't hold too much hope in the companies helping out though. I mean, if such a trial were to be credible and the results talked about online and in all the hydro shops, you can imagine what that would do to the companies that didnt' come first.

 

I personally prefer AN because from what i've read about them, they seem to have the best R&D. They're constanly testing thier products on actual pot in legal medical grows. I've seen footage of them coming to a licenced med grower, deck out a room with latest equipment, clones and computerised testing instrument. They do their tests and leave all the equipment and the pot there for the person to keep, leaving with only the data. They've been doing that for many yrs. Pretty cool.

 

There's so many products of theirs that i can't get hold of in oz yet. They have a fantastic range. Somewhat overwhelming if you're the type of person who likes to use a A + B with some sort of PGR. AN are not just about heavy yeilds, they're about producing quality pot also.

 

Are they the best? I have no idea. I think they'd have to be in the top 3. My best result using AN is 6pnd with 4 600's. I think i can improve on that, considering the place that was grown had environmental problems that would of affected the yeild.

 

There is one Australian company i keep hearing good things about. I think they're called ISN, or IDS or something like that. If there were such a trial, they'd be worth throwing in there.

 

Remo is definately with AN. He is the host of urban grower. A tv show in canada abotu growing weed. You can find it on youtube or urbangrower.com

 

I think no matter who did such a trial, ppl will always have a reason to dispute the result. Personal discernment and a willingness to try other brands products will be the only way to know for sure. Many ppl aren't willing to try new stuff. I know i am reluctant to change anything in my regime at the moment. I've recently moved house and now that environmenal factors that were hurting my past grows have been taken care of, my girls look pristine. The only thing i want to change is the water to R.O. My water is reading EC 0.7. Considering i want my EC at 1.7 for my strain, that's a lot of shit that could be food.

 

BB

[mullray]

I think my views of PGR's are very clear by now. What makes me angry though is when shady companies lie about their products and that's the reason I do not Like Dutchmaster and will never use their products because once lied to and fooled is one thing but twice lied to you are the fool to believe.

 

 

Seems to me then we need to fund out own trials.

[loylty gets u nothing]

i use dutch master now

ive used advanced nutes

2 part sensi range

carboload,big bud,bud blood

piranha and the other thing

also used there week 6 addative

 

at the time i used a coco specific nute

in coco perlite medium

the nutes from extreme

slightly higher yield from the xtreme stuff

it was a while ago though

if i had the $$$ id do a comparison again

bil

[BentBuddha]

There's a dutchmaster superstore in my home town. It's really huge. You actually drive into a warehouse and park in it and there's dutchmaster stuff everywhere. I've never seen a hydro shop like it. However, I don't like the staff there. The ppl they have working there you get a vibe that they're not being honest with you when you're asking advice about products. It's to be expected i suppose as they want to sell and promote their own stuff. Someone who is new to growing i'm sure they could easily convince that what theyr'e saying is accurate. But if you know a bit about hydro, and they can sense you do, they dont' look you in the eye when they're trying to sell you their stuff. Or, they employ very young lads with hotted up 'P' plate cars who have known nothing else but dutchmaster and actaully believe what they're telling you. Either way the store sux, and besides the mediums they sell, i wouldn't buy anything in there and it's all very expensive. Half a km up the road is a tiny hydro shop with a far better range, far better prices and blokes with good unbiased advice.

 

I don't know if AN is the best. But I have seen a grow using dutchmaster that seemed to be somewhat slow. The person switched to AN after advice from his local, and his crop took off. I switched from Canna to AN after seeing the change and had an improvement also. I've only been growing a few yrs. But in that time i've gone from GT, to Canna, and then to AN. Using AN now for almost 2yrs.

 

I don't think anybodies going to believe the results of any trial. Ppl tend to stick with what they know and almost get patriotic about their products. Especially old school DM growers that have been using it for 15yrs. You just gotta experiment for yourself at the end of the day imo and word of mouth from trusted peers is what i tend to favour over huge adds in hydro mags. The guy at my local says that side by side, ISN is very close to AN in results and they are a low budget company which i've never seen advertised. DM and AN seem to spend a fortune in marketing. ISN, as far as i know has been word of mouth.

 

bb

[Tyrantz]

i make nutrients all day at work (insert company name) and all i can say is they all have the same formular the real difference in quality would come from the quality of chemicals used and the person mixing it. if the nutrient isnt mixed properly or wrong levels of chemical are added the balance wnt be right and it will be missing vital chemicals that havent dissolved into the water and this will affect plant growth or if the guys a complete moron kill everything. Also don't use really old nutes no more then 2 years old.

hope that helps.

[mullray]

Thanks for the good advice. I am a qualified scientist but know nothing about mixing nutrients. It's just never interested me and its just so easy to buy them why bother learning more. I've used many different nutrients and found they just about all do the same job. I've had problems with one or two brands (no names mentioned because then it seems to become a marketing campaign) but for the most part all the nutrients seem to be about the same. I like what I'm seeing with the Advanced Nutrients - is it any better than anything else????? Heck - who knows. The reason I always change is often because my store gives me a free sample and I never believe the hype anyway. I shop with a guy here purely because he was the first person that didn't dribble on and try to have me switch systems, nutrients etc. If anyone talks mj in his shop he asks them to leave which I also like because I don't want to shop anywhere that is likely a cop magnet because some clown behind the counter has a big mouth, BTW: I am using CANNA PK 13-14 because I have found this to be to my preference (not saying it is the best, simply to my preference). Silica wise I use Budlink or the Flairform which I find perform no different from one another.

 

 

And yes, true I think that any trial wouldn't be believed so good point.

[Tyrantz]

Just re-read it, the part about deficiencies says that the advance plants only had minor tip burning because his ppm was on the upper end of the scale. sounds to me like he might be over feeding, but it just shows the need for better testing and analysis.