What has caused the hard attitude to MJ in Oz?

[Radic]

well from a permacultists view there is so much to do and so little time

the more kids we have and as they get into it the better off we all will be

permaculture means --->perminate sustainable culture

be part of the solution

not part of the problem

permaculture is the way the world must go

 

we can sustain much more on much less with min transport costs

peek population is along way off yet if we go permaculture style

as our pop grows so does out think tank or brains pool

you should read some of the positive news coming from permaculturests globally

google it

and then theres the hundredth monkey

[Gruntus]

Thx Robbie & Radic. Sleep deprivation is making me grumpy but your considered replies do hearten me.

 

I understand the notion of fear of rubbing off on our kids. I cycle a lot with my first daughter on a bike seat. Adelaide city has become a total car whore and I find it hard not to get anxious when riding with her. I want to make it a pleasant experience for her despite frequent close encounters with phone using motorists. It's not easy..

 

Hundredth monkey? Maybe I should Google that too..

[RobbieGanjaSeed]

I would have thought a place like Adelaide would be covered in bicycle tracks, that'd give me a heart attack too what you descibed.

I still think we should teach the kids (as they can cope with it of course) about the dangers of our future, because I think the biggest danger for individuals is ignorance. I mean blithly polidding along in the mindless mass of dis-belief anything is wrong is what led many civillisations into disaster, and can't be much different considering the ultimate civillisation disaster.

Like Radic said permaculture is definately something to at least feel as though we're controllig our destiny, and I'm sure Adelaide has a healthy permaculute base going from the magazines i've read over the years. Might be worth doing for both practicle and therapudic reasons. You don't have to pay to learn, Bill Mollison has written a couple good books, and once you get ya head in the general concept, it's all an adventure you steer for your own life. Bill Mollisons books would be available at most libraries i think.

 

Hey Radic, you're a permaculutre lad hey? and you live in Nimbin? I wonder how long you lived there? My wife and I attened some conferences down there about 10 years ago now. Maybe it was more? it's been so long. I don't own any land, but have lived on the property of freinds who own thousand of acres while we got the hang of things. not that it's rocket science, but it's enlightening. I live in the bloody suburbs now Although we still do all we can here, much to the stunned amazement of the neighbors Real Estate agents are being less than tolerant on people's actions these days though. yards are supposed to be manicured bowling greens in their view.

 

Man I had a ball discovering permaculture, and is something I do feel is a potetnial protector of my family if the shit hits the wall the way it looks like it might. I was going to write above that we all need to learn to care for ourselves, and have a decent resource of open pollenated vegatables to use if an emergency arose. And one could arise quicker than most people think.

Anyway, just interesting to note you are part of the crowd, just be funny of we'd have met in the showgrounds there over the years wouldn't it?

 

take care

rob

[Iain]

This is off the topic of the thread but after reading what was said about GM I had to reply.

 

I'm a bit surprised that the open minded people here are so opposed to to GM when there are so many possible benefits to the environment and humanity. I challenge anyone to find a single research paper showing a confirmed negative health effect from eating GM food.

 

Permaculture is a great concept but I really doubt that is the solution for famine in drought ravaged African countries. There is no reason that GM could not be used in a permaculture garden, it would mean resistance to disease without any chemicals needed.

 

I think most of the 'facts' people know about GM crops are taken from media hype and biased websites with no scientific basis or based on a single unconfirmed report later dis-proven. Similar to the 'facts' most people know about cannabis. The media hype creates unnecessary fear of GM which stifles potentially beneficial research.

 

there's an article by Dr. Christopher Preston of the University of Adelaide, he looked at 42 independent original research papers in scientific journals and found no confirmed negative impact. http://www.agbioworld.org/biotech-info/art...iewed-pubs.html

There have been hundreds of other research papers from government and industry.

 

It is not possible for the 'mutated' genes to transfer to you body from eating them. People were worried that antibiotic marker genes being used to develop the GM foods would transfer to bacteria creating a new antibiotic resistant strain but the chance that each separate condition required for this happening simultaneously is practically zero.

 

The type of GM plants that produce their own pesticide have genes taken from a type of bacteria so it is a naturally occurring pesticide that is biodegradable and only harmful to insect. It is nontoxic to vertebrates and many beneficial arthropods. It does break down with age but the plant produces more. It may be true that Australian beef has the highest level of pesticide but it isn't from GM cotton. If you want more info look up BT toxin, it's what you're referring to.

 

In the future there will be more GM plants created that are totally immune to certain pests and diseases which means no pesticide use at all, and this is not going to be plants producing their own mass poison.

 

I think the real benefit for GM particularly in Australia and other drought effected countries would be drought resistant strains which would be identical to strains that were developed by traditional methods only more effective and easier to produce. There could also be a salinity resistant strain developed which would have huge benefit to Australia.

 

The GM strains that have increased levels of nutrients like vitamin A in rice could be a huge benefit to poor countries but there is the issue of capitalism where the poor countries might not be able to afford to buy the patented strain from the big companies like monsanto.

 

The only real danger I see in eating GM food is in new proteins that are created as a byproduct that could cause an allergic reaction but with proper testing this would be identified, there is already very strict regulation in Australia on testing of GM food before it is released on the market.

 

I don't trust the companies that are developing GM strains either but I think genetic modification is the next logical step in technology from traditional breeding and selection and it will be essential to growing enough food for the world