What has caused the hard attitude to MJ in Oz?

[mullray]

As I understand it the US is the only country that protects freedom of speech because it is written into the constitution (Bill of Rights). The war on terror has undermined this but freedom of speech still exists in the US unless you print. speak, or publish material that promotes terror and teaches how to build weapons for terror (open to interpretation). There are 5 authors in prison in the UK for exercising their right to free speech so I aren't sure if freedom of speech does exist there.

[RobbieGanjaSeed]

You're right about the "war" on terror making the right to freedom of the press almost null, they rank USA as low as 28th (I think) in that scale of free press.

But Canada has a billl of rights now, and I thought the UK had something at least similar. Have no idea about NZ, and it ranks high on the list of free press.

 

And that's the thing I always find interesting in these topics, because although we don;'t have certain "gaurantees" as citizens, through law, we usually enjoy greater freedom than many who do have them as legal rights. It all comes down to how the government of the day wants to run with things, interperate things..

 

That's how this goes, the laws banning media from promoting drugs in apositive light is so vaigue. It's similar to the promoting of terrorism, and the showing of terrorism in a good light.

That's how some jurnos have been prosecuted since the war on terror began. They ran written pieces explaining why a person would blow himself up, showing his side of it. If those who push the laws read it and figures "hey this is showing the terrorist action in a positive light" or "this might ancourage other terrorists in similar situations"; they get arrested or charged somehow. But these are new laws, thelaws regarding us trying to promote our case for safe use of pot have been in place for decades in Australia at least.

 

Undersatnding how the new terrorism laws stops anyone ever raising their side of the debate automatically understands the grey area this is in too, and why editors, Tv execs etc wont take our side of the story.

All we'll get while the laws are this way, is brave editorials calling for anew look. The new look that will never come, becuase it falls flat about there, with no-one brave enough to front the cause publically. I don't mean "us", I mean a paper or mainsstream mag or tv show etc..

 

They don't want to risk their jobs showing "fair handed" reporting regarding what drove some fool to blow himself and half the block up, they know it will go bad for them and endear very few disgruntled terrorists. And they don't want to risk being judged as promoting the use of pot as safe when so much material and law canbe brought against them by any zealous legal eagle, or one of the anti-pot campaigners running loose in Aus, throthing at the mouth when they read the even handed report we might place in a apper. They'd be the first to call the paper to bare, claiming they were promoting a dangerous drug as safe. Anything to shut them down.They have the law on their side.

 

cheers

rob

[mullray]

NZ is interesting because they've always embraced freedom and the right to speak out about anything one likes. There's a whole groundswell of free thinkers there, perhaps because as a country so far south and with such a small population they have happened upon a unique culture where people have the right to be themselves and express themselves as unique. There's a Republic there in the middle of nowhere - these guys have seceded and formed a Republic. It's weird and in the middle of the Lost (or Forgotten) highway which crosses from the west to east coast of the North Island. Part of the deal is they can grow mj there under their own laws. Because they're in the middle of nowhere I guess the authorities just went oh well another bunch of nuts who want to do their own thing. The Maoris have an elder in the North of the North Island that hands out Maori permits to grow mj - one guy (Maori) who was charged for cultivating challenged the pakeha authority to tell Maori's what to do on Maori land and won. This set a precedent where the laws surrounding the Maoris cultivatingare now shakey.

 

The law though is complex because freedom of speech can become a conspiracy in ANY country, particularly the US. If you write a book about cultivating cannabis (manufacturing amphetamines etc) that's exercising your right to free speech (in the US). If a mate phones you and asks you how to grow cannabis (or bake) and you tell him on the phone when you're unlucky enough to have the US Feds listening in, you've just committed a conspiracy and will likely be imprisoned for it (particularly re baking) - so rights aren't as straight forward as they seem. Then of course it's one thing to have rights and another to be able to afford a decent lawyer to defend those rights in court.

[Zaknefain]

I brought up the lack of bongs with a friend of mine who just moved to Canada and he replied with "what the fuck, theres bongs everywhere what the fuck are you talking about?"

 

Did he smoke himself stupid?

[3AMcobra]

Actually that was me being quite pessimistic, and the INCB and grass roots statements weren't really related - by grass roots I'm talking about DFA and their contacts. Well, maybe not grass roots exactly, what I'm trying to demonstrate is that really - without funding - there's not much to them. They engage as cheaply as they can - by making good use of the media, and by arguing with researchers and pro-regulation advocates on the Net and in print. They've been working to unite and enlist the various groups around Australia, to co-ordinate their attack, but now that they're being funded it's really starting to bite.

 

My only optimism is that the media can be used for our purposes as well - relatively cheaply and effectively as there is simply no opposition to what the other side is saying, they've got free reign and are believed because it's sensational and no-one is keeping them honest.

 

 

 

Well, I tend to disagree - the media can be used in the same way by us, with sensational claims but based on fact such as pipeman's fave "cannabis cures cancer" etc. There is a lot of positive research that doesn't get any coverage simply because no-one is jumping up and down about it, as soon as a negative story comes out you've got *both* the media and the prohibitionists jumping on it. The media can use the story as they have contacts that they can seek comment from.

 

Can we have a revolutionary impact this way? No, but we can make much more noise and impact than we currently are - i.e. none. If we are available for comment, represented by a *respectable* non-profit cannabis user/grower association, then the media will make use of us with many cannabis stories. But we can also initiate many stories of our own, bringing events and research to their attention by way of media releases and our own stunts and circus tricks.

 

That would only be a start, but it's a good start imho.

 

Media follows politics and society - or if you believe in a more post-modern view of media communication then its a cycle of ideas, media feeds off the people, people feed off the media etc. What i'm trying to say is that we probably won't see any change in the messages from the media unless society/governments/laws/systems change first. The media serves to "inform"/scare/sell-to the majority, and lets face it, the majority of people here are conservative old folk that have no clue due to their minds being so full of misinformation.

 

I personally believe the reason Aus is tough or toughter on cannabis is due to the US's "War on drugs", seems anytime the US has a "War on.." anything our leaders seem to think we should follow. Well, that and our media basically models itself on and sponges off the US, pretty soon this country will lose it's identity all together and we'll be a bunch of celebrity worshipping crazies!

[flying-hi]

Today in QLD you will not see a bong anywhere.

 

Bongs, pipes etc can still be bought at a few stores in Brisbane. Off ya tree in the city and Herbal highs in the valley still sell them

[flying-hi]

'mullray' date='Feb 26 2008, 07:53 PM' post='185061']

NZ is interesting because they've always embraced freedom and the right to speak out about anything one likes. There's a whole groundswell of free thinkers there, perhaps because as a country so far south and with such a small population they have happened upon a unique culture where people have the right to be themselves and express themselves as unique. There's a Republic there in the middle of nowhere - these guys have seceded and formed a Republic. It's weird and in the middle of the Lost (or Forgotten) highway which crosses from the west to east coast of the North Island. Part of the deal is they can grow mj there under their own laws. Because they're in the middle of nowhere I guess the authorities just went oh well another bunch of nuts who want to do their own thing. The Maoris have an elder in the North of the North Island that hands out Maori permits to grow mj - one guy (Maori) who was charged for cultivating challenged the pakeha authority to tell Maori's what to do on Maori land and won. This set a precedent where the laws surrounding the Maoris cultivating are now shakey.

 

Hey have to disagree on some things here. Being a kiwi, we don't have any more freedom to grow than Aussies do. The 'Maori Laws' of growing mj are not legal, nor are they dismissed by the authorities. The maoris seem to think they can hand out permits and they will be honoured by the courts, but it's not true. ANYONE, maori or pakeha, caught cultivating, selling etc does get prosecuted. We do embrace freedom and freedom of speech as a right, but if anyone goes too far and is seen as stirring up trouble, the coppers come down hard.

The best we can get is on International 'J' day, when most smokers descend on the various public venues and lite up a joint, pipe and have a toke without fear of being busted. However, this is only for a few hours, 1 day per year. Get caught tokin up outside of the venue, and you're busted.

 

There are hundreds of 'backyard' growers in NZ, some grow in the bush, others hydro, but everyone that does grow takes as much of a risk as anyone else in the world does, (except Amsterdam). Its not legal in NZ, and although the Green Party and other advocates are trying to have it decriminalised at best, its still years away from that happening.

 

True, laws pertaining to what happens on Maori land is somewhat shakey, but just because it's Maori land does not mean that the authorities can, and will, turn a blind eye to it. The cops stormed Maori land last year and arrested people and charged them with terrorist activity. Some had charges dropped, others did not; the Maoris tried to claim it was Maori Land that was being used, but as they were stopping the average joe blow from coming anywhere near the place, (they had guns and used threats), the 'Maori Land' excuse was not enough.

[tony2wheelsgood]

PS sometimes we fall into slumber, believeing we have "Free media" like USA, we don't. It is controlled.

 

all media is controlled in the "free" world. rupert murdoch does most of it in your country and in mine. editors won't go with sympathetic drug stories partly because the advertisers won't like it and 75% of a newspapers revenue comes from advertising.

politicians don't like it because it lets people start thinking for themselves so they encourage alcohol and drunken rage instead.

one good thing i've noticed in england recently is that the comments sections in the online press has a very high proportion of pro cannabis people writing in.

in the uk we're waiting for the Associate Commitee for the Misuse of Drugs (a neutral body of experts appointed by the government)to report next month. this will be their third report and is expected to recommend no change to the law. senior politicians have been threatening a clampdown but the chairman of the ACMD has said that if their recommendations are ignored they 'll retire en masse.

troubling times we're in, friends.

there are alot of indoor growers in the uk who can smoke good weed but the poor people buying on the street are getting soap bar and grit weed at stupid prices. another price of prohibition, maryjane's answer to bathtub gin.

the rich folk don't care, they're awash in cheap cocaine.

love to you all from cold damp england.(berkshire)

[Radic]

Most media yes is true

but

not all media

ever heard of the anaicist cook book

yes de radic-al element is everywhere too

small voice true

but still a voice

nimbin good times is we local paper

nuff pro cannabis articals in dat 1

same with nimfm

they havent sut we down yet

 

our attude is if they wont do what we want

we will do it our selves

hehe

and dats the way to go

make we own media

peoples news paper

make web sites

podcasts and utube

 

i am currantly making a dvd of how to make cannabis ointment and tincture

which is destined to be shared

 

tis a rightious ting ta do

forward the truth

 

every time

i man hafe love dat

[mullray]

Hey have to disagree on some things here. Being a kiwi, we don't have any more freedom to grow than Aussies do. The 'Maori Laws' of growing mj are not legal, nor are they dismissed by the authorities. The maoris seem to think they can hand out permits and they will be honoured by the courts, but it's not true. ANYONE, maori or pakeha, caught cultivating, selling etc does get prosecuted. We do embrace freedom and freedom of speech as a right, but if anyone goes too far and is seen as stirring up trouble, the coppers come down hard.

The best we can get is on International 'J' day, when most smokers descend on the various public venues and lite up a joint, pipe and have a toke without fear of being busted. However, this is only for a few hours, 1 day per year. Get caught tokin up outside of the venue, and you're busted.

 

There are hundreds of 'backyard' growers in NZ, some grow in the bush, others hydro, but everyone that does grow takes as much of a risk as anyone else in the world does, (except Amsterdam). Its not legal in NZ, and although the Green Party and other advocates are trying to have it decriminalised at best, its still years away from that happening.

 

True, laws pertaining to what happens on Maori land is somewhat shakey, but just because it's Maori land does not mean that the authorities can, and will, turn a blind eye to it. The cops stormed Maori land last year and arrested people and charged them with terrorist activity. Some had charges dropped, others did not; the Maoris tried to claim it was Maori Land that was being used, but as they were stopping the average joe blow from coming anywhere near the place, (they had guns and used threats), the 'Maori Land' excuse was not enough.

 

Yep, Holland has changed too and mj has never been legal there - only tolerated (while illegal) because the Dutch in their pragmatism would rather have their kids smoking mj then using hard drugs. You still get arrested in Holland for growing but you're not likely to go to prison but get community service instead. Go to a dutch coffee shop, however, and you'll soon realise its full of tourists.

 

Shame about the Maori's. I read sometime ago that one got off charges by using the permit thing. Looks like they may have to keep on fighting their land wars for a while. NZ though is far more liberal than Australia; no two ways about that.

 

And yes if you look at the origins of the drug war you can clearly see it is another US led war. Definitely they have been meddling in international politics since the 50's and they are definitely behind this latest push to demonise mj.