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What can I/We do to help legalize cannabis in Australia?


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What we want is a licence to grow "x" number of plants per household , thats the only sorta regulation/permission we need off the Government ....

But the only way the Government would even consider controlling / legalising is to licence the big Tobbacco companies to grow, distribute and collect the taxes ... which means we would still be in the same position where personel grows would not be allowed and we would only be allowed to buy the heavily taxed, inferior product put out by the multinational tobbacco company pigs !

 

:peace:

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You can still make your own beer but it's sold on the market. I think the argument that it shouldn't be commercialised is a rather short sighted one. The only way you'll ensure safe mass consumption of cannabis is with a solid regulated industry with both large and small players.

 

Cannabis can be taxed and marketed like any other mind altering substance, you just have to think about it for a bit. Sure, by all means, allow people to grow their own, but the multinationals and local corporations/businesses shouldn't be locked out of it because they're the fundamental way that you get product; safe, reliable and affordable product, into the consumers hands.

 

Think caffeine, alcohol, tobacco, tomatoes. All of which you could grow and produce for your personal consumption, but because they're available on a large scale commercially through quality controlled regulatory systems, you get them cheaper and (generally) of high quality.

 

There is no reason cannabis can't be a regulated, recognised and accepted social drug. The only reason I can think of to keep it unregulated and in the black market is that other drugs (nicoteine, alcohol, caffeine) might lose money, but that's hardly a reasonable proposition from their perspective.

 

The truth will set us free. Send LTE's, (make em short and sweet and you're more likely to be published) and talk to your local member/candidates about their stance and make them justify it.

 

IMHO.

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Luke Iam totally gutted that you side with the multinational corporations :ack: ... is the tobacco example not a shocking illustration of what happens when corporations are given licence to grow, prepare and distribute a drug , tobacco once was psychoactive too ... and the only way the Government would ever consider any kind of legalization is to give the licences to thier financial corporate sponsers ...

its beyond me how you can use the words 'safe, reliable and affordable' in the same sentence as multi-national corporation ... :peace:

 

im not saying lock the fuckers out , just allow people to purchase a licence to grow so many of thier own plants, the cost of the licence is the tax they pay ... :peace:

 

:wub:

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Of course you'll be able to grow it yourself. No-one is arguing that you shouldn't. But a better analogie would be alcohol than tobacco.

 

Would you like to see alcohol production taken out of the hands of corporations and companies and only allowed to be produced by the consumer? Imagine the deaths and damage that would cause..... In fact did cause, during prohibition in the US.... Moonshine isn't good for ya.

 

Who will regulate safety if only home growers are allowed to produce it? What about quality control? What about health and safety standards? Aspergillius mould is just one potential problem with home production that isn't managed, and let's face it, we've all bought shit weed from a commercial dealer at one stage or another and we have absolutely no idea how it's produced or treated.

 

I think there should be the ability to grow your own, but there should also be provision for larger organisations to produce, market and sell (with appropriate taxation and regulation) their own cannabis products....

 

I for one would be one of the first to put up an application to the bank to start a cannabis farm and packaging/wholesale business. Whether it's in joint, raw bud, extract or whatever, I'd be happy to produce and work hard to make a quality product that the occasional user could enjoy. I'd perhaps even have specific product lines for specific effects and undertake a large scale breeding program to advance species....

 

The liscense system you propose would result in thousands of small scale unregulated and almost entirely untaxed producers with no health and safety regulations. And bugger all tax collected. Like alcohol, GST should be applied to any legalised form of cannabis. That would massively broaden the base of taxes collected and result in a lower rate for everyone. Don't forget that with the black market wiped out by legalisation, you'd end up with a massive drop in price. 50% would be very conservative.

 

Do you think the home growers should be free to sell the stuff? Where would you get it from if you were out and wanted a joint? Your mate who knows a mate? How is that much different from the present situation?

 

I wouldn't ever suggest that home-growers be denied, but saying that corporations and business shouldn't be involved is a little naive don't you think? I don't want to end up with a situation like tobacco, where it's a strictly controlled poisonous plant, but more like alcohol, where there are many players, big and small, and home producers are free to make their own.

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For those interested in harm minimisation and legalisation, it's in your interest to know what Drug Free Australia are up to. Critical analysis by Paul Gallagher appears here on his Drug Free Australia Watch blog. DFA are the most creative bunch of deluded liars I think I've seen in this lifetime.

 

Figure that DFA are THE main Australian dissemination point for idle falsehoods, evidence-free treatment theories and simple myth and misinformation (aka propaganda)- and their main clients are the corporate media (Noise Ltd just yums up any old DFA tripe) and Bronwyn Bishop, the current and embarrassingly zero-tolerance biased chair of the Standing Committee on Health and Human Services, which has concluded in their recently released report that the 'war on drugs is winnable.' B) All you have to do is take drug users' kids away and throw mum & dad in the klink.

 

So much for the bible-bashers' 'pro-family' stance...

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Of course you'll be able to grow it yourself. No-one is arguing that you shouldn't. But a better analogie would be alcohol than tobacco.

 

Would you like to see alcohol production taken out of the hands of corporations and companies and only allowed to be produced by the consumer? Imagine the deaths and damage that would cause..... In fact did cause, during prohibition in the US.... Moonshine isn't good for ya.

 

Who will regulate safety if only home growers are allowed to produce it? What about quality control? What about health and safety standards? Aspergillius mould is just one potential problem with home production that isn't managed, and let's face it, we've all bought shit weed from a commercial dealer at one stage or another and we have absolutely no idea how it's produced or treated.

 

I think there should be the ability to grow your own, but there should also be provision for larger organisations to produce, market and sell (with appropriate taxation and regulation) their own cannabis products....

 

I for one would be one of the first to put up an application to the bank to start a cannabis farm and packaging/wholesale business. Whether it's in joint, raw bud, extract or whatever, I'd be happy to produce and work hard to make a quality product that the occasional user could enjoy. I'd perhaps even have specific product lines for specific effects and undertake a large scale breeding program to advance species....

 

The license system you propose would result in thousands of small scale unregulated and almost entirely untaxed producers with no health and safety regulations. And bugger all tax collected. Like alcohol, GST should be applied to any legalised form of cannabis. That would massively broaden the base of taxes collected and result in a lower rate for everyone. Don't forget that with the black market wiped out by legalisation, you'd end up with a massive drop in price. 50% would be very conservative.

 

Do you think the home growers should be free to sell the stuff? Where would you get it from if you were out and wanted a joint? Your mate who knows a mate? How is that much different from the present situation?

 

I wouldn't ever suggest that home-growers be denied, but saying that corporations and business shouldn't be involved is a little naive don't you think? I don't want to end up with a situation like tobacco, where it's a strictly controlled poisonous plant, but more like alcohol, where there are many players, big and small, and home producers are free to make their own.

 

 

Luke, that's a slightly flawed analogy mate. Alcohol takes some preparation, batching, recipe following etc; is toxic and can be deadly poisonous.

The best analogy was the one you started with. And the best interpretation is the reality we have today with tobacco.

 

Both cannabis and tobacco are plants. Both from seed, cultivated simply to harvest either flowers and resin, or leaf and stem shred.

Tobacco has no prohibition, many users and no personal growers.

Australia has no licensed tobacco farmers; government bought out their lic's back in 03/04.

No personal growers because they must pay the excise on any shredded or dried leaf they possess or face far worse penalties than cannabis growers/ users face.

And tobacco is legal!

 

So tobacco companies own the market and export all their product here, for our whole domestic need. Between them and the gov, the market is nicely cooked?

 

Don't hear of any niche' cottage tobacco industries?

No personal consumption tobacco growers, moving into the market industry?

No small outfits getting started offering different tobacco related products? (well there's still tobacconists with their fully imported tobacco products, less of course.. those nasty bongs and glass vapour pipes..)

 

I fully agree there should be some quality control on sold cannabis mate. There sort of is today which is possibly why it comes in clear plastic bags. You can see it, touch and smell it. Can't do that with legally sold tobacco products.

 

Admittedly the cannabis punter doesn't know what nutrients, pgrs and pesticides have been used on his dried product.

 

But the tobacco punter has no idea either. It's just a trust, that Aus standards and indeed global standards are applied to their 'weed' before it's purchased.

Or did the tobacco companies pay off epa, fda ect, and somehow do the unthinkable.. cut corners for profit.. It's not as if anyone will notice people getting sick from using tobacco, now is it B)

 

We don't know how legalization of cannabis will effect the price mate, because we don't know how they'd implement it.

It 'may' become as legal as tobacco and they 'might' market it in such a way, as it's even more expensive than today!

 

It's a shame prohibition has made cannabis' value so apparent. Should be able to grow it with your summer veggies, ornamentally, for shade, as a mulching crop, companion plant... however you want to grow it IMO. :P

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Luke, that's a slightly flawed analogy mate. Alcohol takes some preparation, batching, recipe following etc; is toxic and can be deadly poisonous.

The best analogy was the one you started with. And the best interpretation is the reality we have today with tobacco.

 

Both cannabis and tobacco are plants. Both from seed, cultivated simply to harvest either flowers and resin, or leaf and stem shred.

 

Their only similarity is that they are plant based drugs. The Tobacco industry is clearly not an example of a properly regulated product. The entire industry is awash with corruption (Political donations), pseudo-science and obfuscation (all of those "studies" the Tobacco industry produced to support their position), profiteering, manipulation of the media as well as the end product itself. The were deliberately misleading the public for many decades. They have adulterated their product with tens of chemicals to heighten the effects of nicotine beyond its normal potential for absorption and activity...

 

Most products in the marketplace do not fall into this category. The regulatory model that Tobacco enjoys is very different to those used to regulate Alcohol, prescription medicine, tomatoes, general foodstuff, drinking water etc. etc.

 

The point here is that the regulatory model chosen is of PARAMOUNT IMPORTANCE, that makes or breaks the industry.

 

We don't know how legalization of cannabis will effect the price mate, because we don't know how they'd implement it.

It 'may' become as legal as tobacco and they 'might' market it in such a way, as it's even more expensive than today!

 

They? How THEY would implement it? Mate how would YOU implement it? We are part of a society here, despite what many of us think the Politicians are our public servants. If we don't provide a suitable model, and fight for it, then yes other vested interests will likely come up with a model to suit different interests than that of the consumer/personal use grower.

 

The best approach imho is to come up with a good regulatory model, as a community, with background rationale for each point - comparing similar industries, and backed up with science and common sense. That would head off rediculous regulations and a harmful monopoly. We need to be ready with material like this, with community groups armed and ready to act, and when all of that is in place we need to make a public stand and take this to Australian voters and make this an election issue. But we need to do it properly, we need to be prepared. Above all we should not simply give up and leave this to Politicians and non-users to draft the regulations, we need to be involved but moreso directing and guiding the main thrust of any such regulations.

 

Part of the reason why cannabis is still illegal is our utter apathy and resignation, and this is exactly how they want us... time to shed your shackles mate and start thinking about how YOU would regulate cannabis, and what steps are necessary to make your vision a reality.

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Their only similarity is that they are plant based drugs. The Tobacco industry is clearly not an example of a properly regulated product. The entire industry is awash with corruption (Political donations), pseudo-science and obfuscation (all of those "studies" the Tobacco industry produced to support their position), profiteering, manipulation of the media as well as the end product itself. The were deliberately misleading the public for many decades. They have adulterated their product with tens of chemicals to heighten the effects of nicotine beyond its normal potential for absorption and activity...

 

Most products in the marketplace do not fall into this category. The regulatory model that Tobacco enjoys is very different to those used to regulate Alcohol, prescription medicine, tomatoes, general foodstuff, drinking water etc. etc.

 

The point here is that the regulatory model chosen is of PARAMOUNT IMPORTANCE, that makes or breaks the industry.

They? How THEY would implement it? Mate how would YOU implement it? We are part of a society here, despite what many of us think the Politicians are our public servants. If we don't provide a suitable model, and fight for it, then yes other vested interests will likely come up with a model to suit different interests than that of the consumer/personal use grower.

 

The best approach imho is to come up with a good regulatory model, as a community, with background rationale for each point - comparing similar industries, and backed up with science and common sense. That would head off rediculous regulations and a harmful monopoly. We need to be ready with material like this, with community groups armed and ready to act, and when all of that is in place we need to make a public stand and take this to Australian voters and make this an election issue. But we need to do it properly, we need to be prepared. Above all we should not simply give up and leave this to Politicians and non-users to draft the regulations, we need to be involved but moreso directing and guiding the main thrust of any such regulations.

 

Part of the reason why cannabis is still illegal is our utter apathy and resignation, and this is exactly how they want us... time to shed your shackles mate and start thinking about how YOU would regulate cannabis, and what steps are necessary to make your vision a reality.

 

Cheers nial, you drove the point nicely about the corruption of the tobacco industry. Glad you can see that industry is where the cannabis regulatory model (if ever) will come from.

 

You're right, regulation of cannabis in Australia, likely means none will ever be grown here once its legal. Would, from current experience, all be imported from the US tobacco/cannabis giants land holdings. Likely the third world someplace.

 

I see in your last para above, you also know who they are, so that saves some time.

 

Forgive me for not laying out a points form regulation of Australian cannabis mate. Had hoped - "Should be able to grow it with your summer veggies, ornamentally, for shade, as a mulching crop, companion plant... however you want to grow it IMO."

meant no regulation.. zero tolerance to regulation...

 

So that would really leave things how they are now, accept making it legal to grow, possess and consume personally; along with the legal trading of genetics and smoking/vaping gear. B)

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Completely lost you mate, your reply doesn't make any sense to me:

 

Cheers nial, you drove the point nicely about the corruption of the tobacco industry. Glad you can see that industry is where the cannabis regulatory model (if ever) will come from.

 

Corruption of the tobacco industry, absolutely, but that a cannabis regulatory model will be along the same lines or inspired by it?!? Not what I said mate.

 

You're right, regulation of cannabis in Australia, likely means none will ever be grown here once its legal. Would, from current experience, all be imported from the US tobacco/cannabis giants land holdings. Likely the third world someplace.

 

Huh? Nothing to do with my post. I believe any model would require local production, and I would push for a model that allows personal cultivation along the lines of homebrew beer - non-commercial for private use. I think you've really misinterpreted what I wrote above, really not sure where you're coming from here.

 

I see in your last para above, you also know who they are, so that saves some time.

 

Speechless mate, no idea what you're on about.

 

So that would really leave things how they are now, accept making it legal to grow, possess and consume personally; along with the legal trading of genetics and smoking/vaping gear. B)

 

That would require regulation.

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I agree with Luke about needing to get corporations involved because as he said if people are getting licences to grow, the government would not be able to tax the shit out of it. And I think that if we can show its a good cash crop the government will be more likely to go for it, money talks. I think the other positive of this is weed would be more standardised, like alcohol, when I buy a beer i know what I'm getting and it will be the same as the next beer i buy.

 

But before we can get the government to change laws we obviously need to change the publics opinion. Now i think most people would agree that pot is fairly harmless, but that doesn't necessarily mean enough people would agree it should be decriminalised/legalised. So what can we do to convince johnny no smoke that legalisation would benefit him? Again i think money talks, I don't know about the Australian situation but I've heard that there are heaps of Americans in jail for pot and there has just been heaps of money spent on the war on drugs, I don't think it would be a stretch to assume Australia would have these problems also. So legalising would decrease the prison costs and not clog up the courts. I'd think taxing pot would bring about a ridiculous amount of revenue, Imagine the boost it would give to education, the hospital system or infrastructure. Another good argument would be that if we were to legalise it first, we could develop the infrastructure and be in the best position to export it to other countries when they legalise it. Also legalising it would mean people like me wouldn't be funding terrorism :blink:

It will be hard to prove these sorts of things without funding...and i don't have some millionaire uncle who's about to buy the farm/kick the bucket.

 

I think we also need to de-stigmatise pot smokers. Obviously the public only hears about pot when someone's crashed their car and has been drinking and smoking. Or when some "star" has a breakdown and blames it on drugs. We need stoner role models!! I think ideal candidates would be successful people "coming out of the closet". The other thing that really needs to be changed is the dumbass stoner stereotype. I was talking to someone the other day(non-smoker) and i was saying how me and my friends have really great conversations while stoned, they sarcastically replied "oh I'm sure" and I was really offended. I went on to explain the sort of stuff we talk about and the fact that most of my friends go to the top Melbourne uni's and study things like arts/law, economics and psychology. That said i don't hold any hope of this stereotype changing any time soon.

 

And Niall is right WE need to come up with the plans of how all this will work, I don't want some ignorant straighty(my new favourite term)making up these new laws. Because it could be legalised, but in an impractical way and this may mean people continue to buy black market pot and all these tax dividends that were promised will not materialise.

 

I do think it will eventually be legalised/decriminalised, My grandparents and their generation probably believed a lot of the government propaganda about weed(no offence to people in this age bracket), but my parents generation(baby boomers) grew up with more exposure to drugs and I'd hope are more sceptical of government propaganda. And while that generation has a large amount of control in the corporate world, I'm not sure they do in politics. That said I'm well out of my depth here and am probably clutching at straws. I'd at least expect my generation to legalise it.

 

;)

 

Edit: I also think tourism could be boosted by legalisation, why do people go to Amsterdam? Now I haven't been there, but I'd think the lure of legal weed in Australia would be more tempting than Amsterdam...unless you're into 16 year old whores.

Edited by jojothepotfiend
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