Sea of Green: Get a harvest every 2 weeks

[Al B. Fuct]

heh, knew that the duct tape wasn't long for this job, but ya know, sometimes you just gotta use wot ya got...

 

There once was a day in the mists of time when you could buy duct tape that actually was intended to hold heating & cooling ducts together- for years. You just can't get the REAL duct tape anymore.

 

Got some BMF hoseclamps and a tube of silicone sealant. Problem solved.

 

While I appreciate your compliment, truly, there's not too much to one being an expert in flood systems. I am using flood systems at this moment, but in the past I've used NFT, aero, DWC and drip systems. Floods are simply the most reliable and easiest to maintain of all hydro systems, except perhaps wick systems, which are the very simplest, being pump and plumbing-free.

[Al B. Fuct]

Decided to leave the silicone sealant out. Would have made disassembly for relamping difficult and a perfect seal just isn't needed. Clamped up the tubes, all's well.

[DrDee]

Hey Al-B,

Finished reading the thread. Very interesting. I have three trays 31" (only one set up right now) and am fitting 24 plants in small square pots. I'd post a pix but that seems to be disabled. Must have pissed somebody off.

 

I don't have room for large clone Mommas so I bonzai then and I can't take large cuttings like you do. This run (my first E&F) is with White Widows that I vegged for two weeks. They've tripled in size and are around 2' tall. I doubt that I'll get anywhere near an oz/plant and may have to veg longer. I'm debating using the other two trays since I recently came across and idea called the Hempy bucket. It's a hydro system with no pumps. A bucket with a hole in the side (2" up) and you top it up every day. I have one of the Widow clones in a Hempy bucket and it's almost 50% bigger then the ones on the E&F table. I'll know more in a month or so when this run is complete.

Cheers,

Dee

[Al B. Fuct]

Hey Al-B,

Finished reading the thread. Very interesting. I have three trays 31" (only one set up right now) and am fitting 24 plants in small square pots. I'd post a pix but that seems to be disabled. Must have pissed somebody off.

 

I don't have room for large clone Mommas so I bonzai then and I can't take large cuttings like you do. This run (my first E&F) is with White Widows that I vegged for two weeks. They've tripled in size and are around 2' tall. I doubt that I'll get anywhere near an oz/plant and may have to veg longer. I'm debating using the other two trays since I recently came across and idea called the Hempy bucket. It's a hydro system with no pumps. A bucket with a hole in the side (2" up) and you top it up every day. I have one of the Widow clones in a Hempy bucket and it's almost 50% bigger then the ones on the E&F table. I'll know more in a month or so when this run is complete.

Cheers,

Dee

 

Hm, don't know what's on with your img posting, I think the board is set so you need 50 posts before you can post imgs, but you have over 100. Ask Pure what's happening.

 

What exactly do you mean about 'bonsai' mums? Just a mum that has been cut back several times, like these?

 

 

yes, I know they look sad right after a pass of cuttings- they come back in 14 days to look like this:

 

 

Once recovered after a pass of cuts, my mums are about 24" tall (from tray to tips). Not terribly big, but the flood system takes some vert height and you need sufficient clearance above the plant for the light.

 

A 'Hempy bucket' is simply a wick system. If you want to use wicks and save some dough, DIY. Wicks are deadly simple and it is very difficult to overwater in a wick pot. If you can find two plastic buckets that nest in one another, you have 90% of a wick system already.

 

If your flood plants are not doing as well as your wick plants, you're probably overwatering with the flood system. If you are using absorbent media, it can be flooded as little as once a day (or even less depending on the type of media). If you have slow growth, yellowing leaves, etc. cut back the watering in the flood sys.

 

I've grown WW before. It's a really sweet smoke, nice stuff. However, it is not a barnburner when it comes to production. It's a sativa dominant strain, I think- if it isn't, it sure acts like one. Sativas characteristically don't make tons of bud. I wouldn't mind having a copy of WW again as a second strain, but I prefer Sweet Tooth #4 for productivity.

 

When you are vegging plants you later intend to flower, keep in mind that even when you put a plant in to flower, it will continue to grow vegetatively for the first 3-4 weeks of flowering, doubling to tripling its height. If you veg too long, your plants will get too tall by the end of flowering, so keep that in mind when you are deciding when to flower. Don't veg them up too tall before you flower.

[DrDee]

Hey Al_B,

Ya, I have an inquiry in to Pure about posting pix. I was able to post one picture one time. Must have used up my allotment. No biggie, it'll get squared away.

 

Regarding my Bonzai clone Mothers. It's a technique that's borrowed from the Japanese who have Cherished Bonzai trees that are a hundred years old and yet perhaps only 15 inches tall. I don't worry about aesthetics but I prune the roots and cut the main stem to get them growing very small. My smallest clone momma is only one foot tall and my tallest is barely two feet tall and both are way overdue for having cuttings taken. They are in 6" pots so they can live most anywhere. When I take cuttings the longest ones are perhaps 4" and most are smaller. I just have to veg them a bit longer but always with my vertical limits in mind. There's a great bonzai tutorial over on the front page of Planet Ganja. Your clone Mothers look good and are perfect for your needs.

 

On the Hempy bucket...nope it's not a wick system. I use wicks occasionally for vegging and the Hempy bucket has no wick. Here's a little discussion thread by Hempy himself. He's a cantancerous character and is always getting in fights with people but his idea has been proven over time. I just heard about them and decided to give it a try. It's the essence of simplicity and could be automated though never tell Hempy that or he'll go ballistic!

 

http://213.171.206.23/showthread.php?t=1800

 

I did make a tactical error when setting up my E&F. The only media I had for vegging was coco/perlite and I thought that I would "bare-root" them and put them in hydroton when they were ready for the tray. But they had such a good root mass and I didn't want to traumatize them so I put the coco rootball inside hydroton and set them up that way. The coco is absorbant enough that once a day flooding seems to be enough. I don't know why the hempy bucket plant is growing faster. Maybe better aeration since that one has no coco in it.

 

My strain of WW is questionable. I bought the seeds from AmsterdamMarijuanaSeeds and have no idea which breeder the seeds came from. I know better now. But it's a smooth strong smoke with a balanced high. I thought it was a 60% indica strain. But you are correct...it's not a super yielder. I have other strains to grow later after I get my room all squared away.

 

Take care,

Dee

[Al B. Fuct]

Pure's a great admin, he'll sort you out soon.

 

The Hempy Bucket actually is a wick system, but with none of the advantages of a typical wick.

 

The Hempy Bucket constantly floods the bottom 2" of the media, relying on the perlite/vermiculite media to wick nute soln upward until the roots reach the 'water table.' Without having used the system, I can't make any sweeping statements, but theoretically, I would have fears about root problems with constantly saturated media at the bottom of the pot. The roots will grow to the waterline and stop when it gets too wet for them. Cannabis does not like 'wet feet,' unless that footbath is constantly aerated (ie DWC).

 

A Hempy bucket would benefit dramatically from an air pump and an air stone or bubble curtain buried in the very bottom of the pot, perhaps run on an alternating 15min on/off timer cycle.

 

Ordinary wick systems do have the extravagance of a reservoir and some rope or cloth wicks, but this limits the wetness of the media in the plant's bucket to just what the plant wants. The media bottom is never saturated.

 

I think you've sussed out the cause of the slow growth in the flood. I can see how a buried mass of coco/perlite in the clay pellets would remain too wet if it extends below the flood level. Can you repot with more pellets in the bottom, to raise the coco well above the flood level? If you are only wetting roots in pellets, you could probably increase watering to a couple-three times a day and improve vigor.

 

The flood should outperform the Hempy bucket if by virtue of better aeration to the roots, presuming a nute tank in your flood sys with constant aeration from a pump & stone. If it's not doing better than the Hempy, there's something wrong, but I think you've found out why.

[DrDee]

Al-B,

Your comments about the Hempy bucket are exactly what most detractors say about it. Having that 2" of nutrient solution down there would promote root rot. Hempy's response is that the plant sucks it up and uses it before it can go bad.

 

I have a buddy whose favorite saying is: "One test is worth a thousand expert opinions" So, following that philosophy is what motivated me to give it a try. If this test works out good, I'll do another.

 

On my E&F, I do have aeration via an air tap on a valve fitting that's installed on the hose to the nutrient pump. So when the nutrient pump starts up, so does the air pump and aerates the solution in the hose on it's way to the tray. If I mess with anything on the table, I may just do what I should have done in the first place and wash away the coco. I'm two weeks into flower and I'll see how the next few days go. Thanks for putting some thought to my situation.

 

Keep on keepin' on,

Dee

Edited February 10, 2008 by DrDee

[Al B. Fuct]

the plant sucks it up and uses it before it can go bad.

 

This of course is wholly dependent upon the size of the plant. One could not expect a new clone to drain the saturated media before all the dissolved O2 was dissipated... aka stagnation and subsequent encouragement of anaerobic pathogens, particularly with a small plant.

 

A proper wick system doesn't care what size the plant is. It is the wicking action which regulates the watering rate, and the uptake rate is dependent upon how much water is removed. Overwatering is virtually impossible as the amt of water drawn from the res by the wick is equal to that used by the plant and that lost by direct evaporation from the media.

 

I have a buddy whose favorite saying is: "One test is worth a thousand expert opinions" So, following that philosophy is what motivated me to give it a try. If this test works out good, I'll do another.

 

Test all you like, but don't confuse a better looking plant in the Hempy vs an ordinary one in your flood with the Hempy being an inherently better performer. If your flood plant doesn't do as well or better than the one in the Hempy, there's problems in the flood sys.

 

On my E&F, I do have aeration via an air tap on a valve fitting that's installed on the hose to the nutrient pump. So when the nutrient pump starts up, so does the air pump and aerates the solution in the hose on it's way to the tray.

 

You'll have a much greater chance of achieving maximum O2 saturation with an airstone running 24/7 in the nute tank as opposed to introducing a bit of air in the tray feed line, where only a small part of the soln is exposed to the air stream for less than a second on its way to the tray.

[DrDee]

Hi Al_B,

Thanks for your response. I'm re-evaluating my E&F situation and will take your advice into consideration.

 

Regarding disolved oxygen. That whole aeration thing is being re-evaluated by the hydro industry. I've read in several places that aggressive 24/7 res aeration can cause serious management issues. My most recent reference for this is a recent AN Nutrients newsletter (I think it was Dec 07) stating that pH swings and oxidation of the chelating agents can occur. The basic concept of E&F: where the receding water draws fresh air into the root zone with each flood should supply enough oxygen. And of course I'll keep the air pump running while the nutrient pump is on. I actually like that system since during the entire flood time bubbles are rising up the hose into the tray full of water and aerating it where the plants are. Not down in the res.

 

I've began correcting the water retention issue. I'm about half done removing the coco and the plants look fine. There will be some set-back I'm sure, but by the end of today the plants will be in straight hydroton. I'm planning on 5 fifteen minute floods during lights on. Does that sound about right? I know you shouldn't exceed 30 minutes per flood.

 

And Al_B, I'm not a defender of the Hempy bucket. I find it to be an interesting idea which has been used by Hempy and others since the mid-80s. I know it's not a fair test to compare it to a poorly performing E&F system. But I also have over 20 other plants growing in Coco and dirt and once this run is complete I'll take a serious look at how well the Hempy bucket performed. At that point I'll pull the plant and inspect the roots which will be the crucial point.

 

Thanks for your opinions on my E&F situation. It's been helpful and I appreciate it.

Dee

[Al B. Fuct]

Regarding disolved oxygen. That whole aeration thing is being re-evaluated by the hydro industry. I've read in several places that aggressive 24/7 res aeration can cause serious management issues.

 

I had a spell of running my system without aeration- pumps quit, I was too slack to replace them. The result was about a 50-60% reduction in yield. Put new pumps in, yields went gangbusters.

 

Any nutrients which don't work well with nute tank aeration are simply unsuitable for use in hydroponics- but this is the first I've heard that any don't work well with tank aeration, to be true.