Flushing ....

[Taipan]

Good to see some more input now. I felt like it went a bit beyond a discussion and became a personal attack, but I guess I just heard the words a bit harsher than they were. I had no intention of upsetting anyone and I apologise if I did.

 

My background is different than most of you, I was a grower for about 15 years and tried many methods with mixed results, and thought at the time that I knew it all. But then I opened a hydro shop and built it up from scratch and ran it for almost 15 years. During this time I dealt with 100's and 100's of growers and through them I soon learnt that my "expertise" was nothing at all. Through the years of my own growing and helping other growers overcome every problem you can imagine I gathered a lot of experience. I am far from saying I know it all, so many people use so many different methods, and do so many strange things, and the thing is that a lot of them work. I had a guy come in once wanting some more part "A" of his nutrient, I said it was only available as a 2 part, he responded by saying that "but part A is for grow and part B is for flower and he needs more grow". He wanted to argue this point till I showed him the different packs. He was then rather embarrassed but after asking him about the condition of his plants, they were very healthy and growing fine. I could go on and on with the strange things people do and try with such varied results that I stopped being an "expert" long ago.

 

With regards to the points I have been trying to make in this post, I have found these techniques improved my own growroom and has helped other growers overcome continual problems. In the early days of my shop, people were running EC's between 3.2 and 5.0. It took me a long time to convince people to reduce the EC, even down to 2.2, and then it took even longer to convince people that even that is too strong and 1.8 is better. In the later years of my growing I found that I got more consistent and better results with even less. Human nature is always to add more, it took me a long time to even try less amounts but I am glad I did. If we were growing in full sunshine it would be a different story, they would prefer a much higher EC, but indoors they only need a weak solution to grow to their potential.

 

Please don't take this as a personal attack on anyone but it does sound like some people think they have a monopoly on growing good pot. They don't. There are thousands of people that grow very good pot and they all do it differently. I am retired now and got a bit bored so I thought I'd try and help some of the newer growers overcome some problems, hence I joined the forum. I really don't expect anyone to take what I say as being 100% gospel, listen to all the advice you can get and apply a bit of logic to what you hear.

Edited February 2, 2007 by Taipan

[bufo marinus]

hehe taipan, not sure why your thread stirred up so many people I tend to have a similar view to buddy.g and will say I was surprised by some of the posts, all I can guess is that the posters got a little excited and their posts came over a bit strong? I didn't think you were attacking anyone and can't quite understand, but thats ok, it's all there for everyone to come to their own conclusions

When you gunna do a grow diary taipan? great way to show what you do. Come check out my coco grow too man, be interested in your opinion

[bufo marinus]

EDIT; of course that invitation is open to everyone here too. I luv yas all and enjoy all the varying opinions

[Frazz]

Hey up some of youse seem to think this is an argument , and some dont like others comments , well really there is nothing abusive or ill-conceived in this thread

 

Why do people get 'concerned ' because a Moderator or Tiapan has an opinion of thier own? .. i think its great cause no one is claiming to be the Messiah, they are just putting forward thier opinions / views / experience

 

Its beyond my comprehension how anyone could interperate this thread as a personal attack ... its sad because it only stiffles free speech of members who have an opinion they wish to air on the forum without being questioned about thier appropriateness

 

[SukonmiSkunk]

I may of come acrross a little strong..

 

but in all reality I think tiapan does make a good point... theres no need to use so much nutrient in growing... and I can understand totally where hes coming from with the commercial hydro "vegy" growers.. and he is exactly right.. none of them actually flush the plants during the grow like we do for mj... they will only really dump the nutrients and refresh with new every so often... obviously different crops will use slightly different techniques...

 

but like luke has pointed out... we are smoking the MJ.. where as we only eat the tomatoes... smoking is a whole new ball game... excess nutrient levels contained in the plant.. certainly makes the buds taste like crap.. and who knows if these levels could be toxic when smoked.. I have had head aches from unflushed MJ in the passed...

 

there was that little bit of confusion at the start of the thread.. where I thought tiapan was talking specifically about MJ.. well he is sort of.. but not entirely...

 

MJ.. is a unique plant where it will adapt to most situations and environments ... and although it may not be necessary to flush through the entire grow.. it is certainly necessary to flush in the final 2 weeks...

 

I totally agree with tiapan about using lower nutrient levels.. every plant will take different levels.. what might work for one strain might be way too much for another..we see this in rooms with different strains being fed from the same resi.. some will look green and some will be a little pale.. its upto that individual to work that out by trial an error... this is why we recommend that you start of with 1/4 or even 1/2 strength and raise it as it needs it.. if the leaves are slightly paling to yellow then that is a sure sign of not enough.. so you raise it a little...

 

really all my point is .. for newbies.. that start to grow.. everything is a little over whelming and they might not notice little issues before they turn into major issues.. we see a lot of this on this site... and usually the only solution is to flush the medium to give you a clean medium to start again...

flushing regularly.. all tho like tiapan has stated is not even necessary.. but it will always stop little issues before they arise... and I personally feel the plants tend to react with a growth spurt when refreshed with new water and nutrients...

 

I probably should explain my method... when I ad nutes.. I will mix them to about 1800ppm.. but I wont add any more nutes to that water.. to keep the ppms at 1800... ill just ad water.. when the ppms get to below the 1200 mark.. I know thats when Im going to have issues.. this is with my strain... so ill dump the res.. refill with clean water .. flush that around the meduim for a while untill the ppms get down to around 5-600.. then add fresh nutes... its taken me about 5 grows with this strain to get the nutrients to a point where its working almost perfectly...

when a plant is in flower.. you will notice it hardly uses nutrients and takes more water.. my room will use about 20liters a day in full bloom.. with 60liter heart... you're adding fresh water everyday.. so flushing really isnt necessary.. cuz with 20liters of fresh water daily .. it is sort of like flushing...

how ever I really believe pot thats had this extra attention.. especially at harvest time will always taste better than the pot that hasnt.. but thats just from my personal experience...

 

times to flush the medium fully would be.. when switching from grow to flower... when you notice the tips of the leaves burning... and most certainly at the end... these are really the only times you will NEED to flush.. but regular flushing every 1-3 weeks I feel will help maintain salt levels with in the medium...

 

so as of this thread being an argument.. I dont think it has been that way at all.. and I really think this thread is a very good read all round...

Taipan has even mentioned that there are 100's of people growing mj 100's of different ways with excellent results.. just goes to show how resilient this plant can be... although I will be keeping my flushing technique .. as it works for me... MJ growing is all about personal choices.. and really finding things out for your self.. get out there and experiment with both these techniques.. and find whats best for you.. I can only advise people on my experiences... and ill continue to do so...

 

thanks Tiapan for the info... and the great thread ...and I say we're glad to have you as a member...

 

SSkunk

[Roadblock]

times to flush the medium fully would be.. when switching from grow to flower... when you notice the tips of the leaves burning... and most certainly at the end... these are really the only times you will NEED to flush.. but regular flushing every 1-3 weeks I feel will help maintain salt levels with in the medium...

SSkunk

 

 

Couldnt agree more , SSkunk , thats good advice , and if you run a high flow medium you can run enough nutrient flow so you wont get salt build up unless you are slack on the tank management , nutrient salt build up is very much in sync with flow rate and what medium type you use , when your plants have a little bit of establishment behind them they will handle very high flow rates if ventilation and lighting is right , but dont give them to much to early , I think a lot of beginners slows the plants metabolism down through overwatering when they are little , by doing that the door is open for all sorts of problems to arise and often does from root rot to lockup , MJ is a formula 1 plant , when its pumping you can run the nutrients for hrs on end and they do what MJ does when it in go mode , it powers ,,,,,

 

Good read fellas

 

Rod

[bufo marinus]

Why do people get 'concerned ' because a Moderator or Tiapan has an opinion of thier own? .. i think its great cause no one is claiming to be the Messiah, they are just putting forward thier opinions / views / experience

 

Its beyond my comprehension how anyone could interperate this thread as a personal attack ...

 

 

I'd make a long, involved and detailed post as to why taipan seems to know what he's talking about, but appears to be proposing that we're all idiots....

 

Screw it I will

 

but like I said I need to be at work... so Ill deal with this bullshit when I get home...

 

Well apart from these couple of curly ones from the mods hehe it wasn't a complete blood bath

 

I may of come acrross a little strong..

 

Fair enough, now let's move on.

 

times to flush the medium fully would be.. when switching from grow to flower... when you notice the tips of the leaves burning... and most certainly at the end... these are really the only times you will NEED to flush.. but regular flushing every 1-3 weeks I feel will help maintain salt levels with in the medium.

When the tips are burning? for sure to get rid of excessive/high levels of nutrient/salts and bring the EC of the root zone down.

Flushing at the end, everyone seems to agree it is helpful and I have seen my own buds with no flush Snap, Crackle and Pop when pulling a cone too.

But in regards to flushing, when we switch over to 12/12, and I do the same, as I start running the flower nutes through the coco the week prior , how beneficial is it really?

Ok all nutes are not created equal, but for the purpose of this discussion, this is the analysis on Green Dream from Flairform

 

[Frazz]

Thank God we averted a 'complete bloodbath'

 

 

By silencing contradiction, political correctness entrenches the orthodox view, which is eventually accepted as true, as freedom of thought requires the ability to choose between more than one viewpoint.

 

 

 

[Shithappens]

I flush because it gives me a sense of well being

 

but then i run 16 cf so i could probly get away without flushing but hell its a nice sensation when ya do

Edited February 3, 2007 by Shithappens

[Taipan]

When you gunna do a grow diary taipan? great way to show what you do. Come check out my coco grow too man, be interested in your opinion

 

I'd love to be able to back up my words by showing a good grow diary, but I shut my grow room down about 2 years ago. I have gone through less than half my stash in that time so I won't be starting it up again for quite a while. After spending all day every day dealing with growrooms and looking after my own for so many years it is nice to have a break for a while.

 

Everyone is making very valid points and I am not going to challenge any of them. I know my own ideas are a little outside the normal, but I lost faith in a lot of the companies that supply nutrients and other grow products quite a long time ago and don't necessarily agree with their recommendations. Marketing played a huge part in the selling of these products and not a lot of them were backed up with serious trialing and research. Not that there is anything wrong with their products, just in the early days most of the nutrient companies were just backyard people or other shops with little knowledge with which to base their claims on. These days the companies are a lot more reputable. So over the years I developed my own ideas based on my own experiences and feedback from lots of customers.

 

Just to address a couple of points people made, hand watering is a method that is very prone to nutrient build up and flushing is possibly required at some point, but I have had some excellent results with hand watered systems, especially in coco and I still didn't flush (apart from only feeding fresh water in the last 2 weeks), but my feed strength was probably 25% of the recommended strength. I tested the runoff every week or so to make sure I didn't have huge buildups, or lack, and that the pH was remaining stable. Again, there was no lack in health, quality or yield.

 

Flushing between grow and flower is something that most growers would do, but I don't even do that. The plants nutrition requirements during this stage doesn't necessarily change instantly, it changes over a period and any residual grow nutrients will soon be used up. But there is certainly no harm in flushing.

Edited February 3, 2007 by Taipan