Where there's smoke - there's propaganda

[Frazz]

So freechoice any Oprah or better still Springer style confessions to tell us?

 

So easy to scoff and heap scorn on folks unfortunate mental problems ... im sure no-one else would want to post thier experiences just for you to trivialize it in such a way

 

[SukonmiSkunk]

the facts are there.. MJ DOES cuase issues with some people... albeit not many... but it does happen

 

I personally know of 2 poeple.. and yes, Jess.. out of 1000's that ive met... that have severe issues with smoking MJ...

 

one friend from high skool.. is a party animal from hell... he used to smoke... cigies and pot.. and drink quite a bit... one day at a mutual friends house we were spotting hash on the knives... just hash..nothing out of the ordinary.. we spotted hash all the time... no drinkin involved... well out of the 3 of us.. he was the only one that had issues.. he started twitching.. like a nervous twitch.. let me tell ya it was a weird thing to watch..as me and my other friend were just really stoned.. and of course being idiots.. it happened a few times after this ... so now he doesnt smoke pot at all.. he says hes fine.. but when he gets stoned he just falls apart.. uncontrollable twitching and just generally being uncomfortable he says.. so now he dont smoke pot at all.. which is a shame.. he grows really good pot.. and he also used to love choofing it... he smoked for about 10 years before this started happening to him... whether it had anything to do with the pot at all.. I guess is up for debate.. but I seen it first hand... so it does happen...

 

another friend... he's skitzophrenic ( is that how ya spell it?) grows the best out door pot ive ever smoked in his garden.. and he still continues to grow so when friends drop in they can have a smoke... hes a great guy hey.. but yeah.. he says when he smokes.. and it doesnt happen all the time.. only on the od occasion... that the voices in his head are uncontrolable.. meaning he cant determin real from fiction... when hes not stoned he can rationalize and everything is ok.. but when hes stoned he cant seperate the bullshit voices from the real.. so he tends to go a little crazy.. one day I seen him hunting a mouse with a bowie knife.. reckoned if he didnt kill that one mouse then the whole house would be taken over.. that sort of thing...i mean he was really in a frenzy... I calmed him down and he realised he was just freaking out for nothing.. but if I hadnt come along he might of been there for days...

 

also let me just say both my friends love pot.. they both still grow.. becuase of thier love for this plant...they both realise its the Mj thats sending them ... well, not really loopy.. but not exactly right either.. and they both are very pissed off that they have to lay off it now.. although i think they still have a choof everynow and then...

 

so you see the issues are there and they are real.. but yeah.. out of 1000's ive met.. and no doubt every one of them has some sort of issue... its only a rare thing to see someone react this way to MJ...

 

remember MJ like any other drug.. effects some people differently.. we have a different chem make up or a slight chem imbalance.. and MJ can really fuck with that... after all its how drugs work...

 

with all this said... I still feel its one the lesser harmful drugs that can be used by a majority of people with absolutely no side effects at all... but there are a few that it effects differently... the evidence is clear...

the thing is with doctors.. they only see the sick people it effects so they would get the wrong idea of all the others it doesnt effect... might be why they think its a lot more dangerous than it really is...

[pipeman]

yeah good point SS. Health care workers ranging from psychiatrists to emergency ward doctors only see the people who flip out. They don't see the millions of heavy tokers who never have a need to go to the doctor. So its not hard to see how their perspective could be unbalanced.

 

So easy to scoff and heap scorn on folks unfortunate mental problems ... im sure no-one else would want to post thier experiences just for you to trivialize it in such a way thumbdown.gif

 

Stoners have been victims of judgemental close minded thinking for so long we sometimes fall into the same mode of thinking ourselves due to anger and frustration, but its something we should try to avoid IMO.

 

If we dismiss all anti mj evidence and accept all pro mj evidence we won't have a lot of credibility will we?

[Jess Stone]

Well excuuuse me Frazzle but I disagree with your assessment of my critique`,I have made an incredibly valid point ,past extreme trauma is often the cause of mental illness,the trauma alone has its own mental illness that is named post traumatic syndrome so I 100% stand by my valid question about past traumatic experiences. This could easily apply to SS pals as well ? So you didn't like the way I phrased it with reference to Oprah and Springer ,tough,as its a tough merciless world out there.

Now why would anyone continue to use anything that makes them sick unless their stupid beyond belief? I don't drink beer as 3 middies + makes me feel like I'm coming down with a severe case of the flu,even Coopers does it as does homebrew thats organic,I eat bread and cakes with yeast so its not that ,other alcohol doesn't do it just beer so ipso facto its the hops,so I don't drink beer(any alcohol actually as I find the buzz obnoxious and drunks obnoxious) I tried smack 30 years ago a couple of times ,a couple of snorts and a couple of hits ! YUUUUUK what a revolting buzz ,I threw up everytime for hours on end ,I mean spraying out the whole time like the Exorcist movie,I have had morphine a couple of times medically,I didn't even make the toilet or basin to throw up in both times,clearly I am allergic to morphine based opiates(codeine doesn't make me up chuck) ( apparently around 50% or so of males and 30-40% of females have some sort of allergy to morphine based drugs) So I would be a FUGGING IDIOT to become a junkie beyond the obvious idiocy of it,I have to avoid it medically as well and opt for synthetics in cases of medical need. If for some reason beyond my understanding seen that THC seems to be the same substance as Anandamide an essential regulating hormone I don't really see how it can cause mental probs when it seems to have much function in the brain and body .

I think drunks and the alcohol industry and pharma drugs and the big pharma industry are conning you ,its there products causing mental illness and they need a believable scapegoat but it has to be believable and MJ is pervasive enough in society to fill the roll unlike say smack!

[SukonmiSkunk]

just to add quickly... jess is right.. my skitzo friend.. is skitzo.. its not the pot that has made him this way.. its just when hes stoned it elevates the senses... making him unsure... so its not the pot making him this way.. he already is this way... pot just elevates it.. so he doesnt smoke it... he still grows it..

 

my other mate isnt "mental".. but the pot seemed give him these wierd ass nervous twitches... he still parties like crazy.. and drinks a shit load of alcohol... he even smoked pot for years.. but now when he smokes it he gets these twitches.. of course we all gave him shit about it and laughed... but untill I actually seen it with my own eyes.. on a few seperate occasions.. with NO other drugs involved I certainly would never have believed it... hes fine when he doesnt smoke... but he still grows it...

 

 

 

I aggree... most times with mental illness.. it is something else.. most people turn to pot... and then I guess this is why the doctors blame the drug.. its an easy way out...

 

so when people use MJ.. like every other drug on the planet... they have a reaction to its use... whether its mental or physical... doesnt say its the MJ thats making people mental.. but it certainly wouldnt be helping getting thier life back on track...

 

I think.. yes for sure.. there would have to be a small percentage that would react in certain ways when smoking pot... there would have to be.. it makes sense when you see all the allergies and shit people have with various foods and animals... so there would have to a small percentage that would have a negative reaction... its just stands to reason... abvoiusly that percentage would be a shit load lower than what we are told... becuase as jess has said.. most of these people would have some sort of post trauma in thier life that needs to be sorted out before they can move on completely...

 

and ive always said.. when one isnt right with in thier own mind then one shouldnt be looking at drugs.. of any kind... for a quick fix

[nimbin1997]

yeah good point SS. Health care workers ranging from psychiatrists to emergency ward doctors only see the people who flip out. They don't see the millions of heavy tokers who never have a need to go to the doctor. So its not hard to see how their perspective could be unbalanced.

 

I cannot believe the hogwash and multi-sylled words being conjured together to

make those reports used to fashion coffin and coffin nails to dump us all into. Paid

for by our tax money, that they go on to buy wine and booze to celebrate how

smart they are at writing those shit reports.

 

I recalled that those head docs at one time in studying hundreds of loonies found that they masturbate, and conclued

all who wanked themselves will go crazy. But then, the millions who are not loonies and who wanked

themselves were not studied.

 

Makes me sick that those people grapped our money to use that to screw us even more.

[jabez]

Man, this report is good and it would have to be one of the best government studies I have seen in Australia. That’s what makes the propaganda used by former Australian Federal Police commissioner Mick Palmer (the one who released it) so perfect, I would love to know why they got an ex cop to realise it

 

Anyway if you read the start of the report its all opinions and statistics and as they point out themselves these statistics are not the same as a causal link, they’re basically just a bunch of meaningless statistics trying to prove something that’s not.

 

But if you get past the headlines and that “in short” bull shit it actually has some facts in it rather than all those statistics, which are not the same as a causal link

 

My favourite was how it is scientifically impossible that cannabis can give schizophrenia to a person that was not already going to get it anyway. It also debunks the idea that a rise in the cannabis potency is causing a mental illness epidemic. It also shows that cannabis is not all that addictive because only 10% of people that try it end up having a habit, which is less than alcohol.

 

The council's chief executive, John Mendoza, said there was now proof smoking cannabis had serious mental health risks.

 

This is the problem even though the report clearly states that harsh laws have no deterrent on the amount of people smoking it, they are still using the very same report to try and push the state governments in to making there cannabis laws tougher. The proof of this is at news.com where the federal government is trying to get the states to ban bongs, at the end of the article they say the call has come because of the new study “where theres smoke” I think the article was posted here.

 

I wrote to the Mental Health Council and basicially asked them to tell me what section of the report had “proof smoking cannabis had serious mental health risks” and why they are allowing there report to be used in the opposite way to what the evidence in the report said

 

Its messed up but on the bight side someone who knows nothing about cannabis might find this report and read past the headlines and find out the truth, CANNABIS HAS NO LONGTERM SIDE EFFECTS.

 

These are some of my favourite points in the report,

 

*It is now recognised that there are multiple layers to drug use, involving the individual, their relationships to peers, family, school and community, as well as broader structural factors, all of which interconnect and impact on a young person’s health outcomes.

 

*Recognise that cannabis has been used by a majority of Australians at some point in their life, without longterm adverse effect

 

*Just as researchers attempt to establish causality, so do carers and family. In a strict scientific sense, it is likely that carers overstate the causal link between cannabis and the development of mental illness.

 

*Most studies that set out to determine causality between cannabis use and mental illness find associations that far exceed those found in the general population. Invariably, these rates of association are greatly reduced ‘when confounding factors are taken into account’. Such confounding factors could be family violence or alcohol abuse that make it impossible to assign causality to cannabis use alone. The search for ‘pure’ causality is a fascinating and necessary research task but clinicians know that very few patients present without a range of confounding factors.

They tend to see a constellation of contributing factors to mental illness of which cannabis is only one.

 

*One of the most difficult challenges for cannabis research is the high level of poly-drug use, making it difficult to isolate the effects of cannabis from other drugs. Copeland et al. (2004) illustrate this through figures from the 2001

National Drug Strategy Household Survey, which show that alcohol was very commonly used in conjunction with cannabis (95.1% ), followed by amphetamines (26%) and ecstasy (19.9%). Only 2.7% reported not having used any other drug with cannabis.

 

*There is still doubt that cannabis causes schizophrenia that would not otherwise have occurred in its absence, as rates of schizophrenia appear to have remained stable or decreased, despite substantial increases in cannabis use over the past few decades.

 

*However, it is clear that it cannot be a major causal factor in terms of the number of

‘cases’ of schizophrenia that result. This conclusion can be drawn because the rates of schizophrenia across the world are fairly uniform despite significant variations in cannabis consumption. Also, despite alleged increases in the potency of cannabis over the last two decades, there has been no major increase in the rate of schizophrenia. Furthermore, the vast majority of people who use cannabis do not develop schizophrenia and also the vast majority of people who have schizophrenia have not ‘got’ schizophrenia simply because of cannabis consumption.

 

*The conclusion that can be drawn, then, is that for a few individuals it might be that cannabis acts as the ‘straw that broke the camel’s back’.

 

*There is good evidence that people with psychosis report using cannabis in an attempt to alleviate the emotional and psychological distress associated with their illness

 

*It is important to note that these findings relate to whether cannabis plays a causal role in the development of later depression, not whether it exacerbates depression that may have been precipitated by a range of other factors - it is well known by clinicians that ceasing or reducing the use of any illicit psycho-active substance is very important in the recovery of people with depression. Rather, the findings provide evidence that a range of other factors may be implicated in the development of depression, suggesting that the problem cannot be fixed simply by targeting cannabis.

 

*In examining the evidence for longer term residual damage, the authors conclude that even heavy cannabis use does not appear to cause lasting or irreversible cognitive impairment

[Jess Stone]

Well this is pretty well what I have been saying jabez,these reports are all the same particularly multi-discipline broad inquiries like Royal Commissions the findings say one thing conclusions and summaries are sometimes a flip flop and other times support the report,then we get perverted political ideological interpretations and nonsense claims like the idiot savant Chris Pyne's absurd claims eg. cannabis is more dangerous than heroin and cocaine ! wtf. I remenber well a TV press conference called by Kennet the evening before a big Inquiry was tabled ,he claimed he would fully implement the recommendations of said Inquiry,it recommended decrim as a first step to legalisation (I think) and low and behold TOTAL FLIP FLOP !

 

Another major problem is the MSM whores who allow these creeps to get away with telling lies and crap and garbage and propaganda with out questioning the politicians pronouncements , because of the media owners political agendas and editorial policy ! And this is supposed to be the news , NO , its PROPAGANDA ,the tool of tyrants !

Edited January 3, 2007 by Jess Stone

[free choice]

hi folks .. back from Woodford & fairly straight time of it at that ..although I could smell it up on the hill ..

sure smells nice..

 

in answer to MULLAWAYS questions ..

free choice - sorry to hear about your illness mate.

It concerns me to hear it linked to cannabis also.

 

Do you mind if I ask; have you tried cannabis alone, vaporized? ..

I haven't vaped although I approve of this metheod..& would get one.

 

Do you smoke cannabis with tobacco?...

no I hate Spin ...dont use tobacco

 

 

Do you use any other drugs including anti psychotics meds and alcohol, whilst using cannabis? ..

I rarely drink ...never take anything else..

 

Do you know the strain you smoke? ...

 

most dealers I know can't tell me ..

one bastard sold me a deal that was spiked with something nasty once ..totally freeked me out ..

 

Do you grow it yourself? ...

I have in the past , it was a bag seed sativa ..... local brisbane buzz.. not too bad.

 

...I ordered some sativas from Panet skunk .. ( see my posts as "freechoice2" on Planet skunk )

will give it one last hurl ... if I crash & burn again .. that's it .it's not for me.

----------------------------------

what I can add is that my mother developed schizoprenia later in life due to a very hard time through two world wars , 9 children , malnutrition & the mental stress that ensues seeing people shot dead in the streets .., some fine tuned medication saw her recovery in her later years ...to normal.. & a happy peaceful end.

my sister displayed bipolar symptoms , but that was because she was a nurse in Saigon , in an orphanage during the war in Vietnam with similar horrors & atrocities to shock you out of your mind .......

 

 

I used to have depression too in my late teens , but that was just the blues due to growing up in a society rampant with madmen & villians & the confusion that surrounds us

( quite typical I'm told )

 

.... the blues seems to have levelled out with life experience .. thank god.. it would seem that I'm one who is close to the edge .. & it doesn't take much chemical enhancement to throw me off the deep end ..

consequently I'm rather afraid of Pot ... as it stresses my nervous system & brain functioning into psychosis .. all be it .. I return to normal if I stop ..6 months later I'm fine. happy even.

 

what i'm saying is that normal people .. sensitive & high strung ... can go over the edge with too much stress... pot stresses my nervous system if I indulge too often ..

I have observed many friends get agitated & short tempered when coming off it..

some peeps don't go well on pot I'm afraid ..

 

my apologies to folks who rally up the stuff .. praising it's virtues ..I don't think it's evil ..

I'm all for decrim , regulation & proper education .. the Dutch model is OK

 

cheers , sorry about the negative report..

I have a habit of thinking way to far & deep into things...

 

( see my post about god the universe & everything .. he he)

 

my new years resolution is to lighten up , not take things so seriously /// so far so good..

my antidote & #1 recomendation , ..I watch youtube .. "whose line is it anyway" he he

.. improvised comedy that gives us hope in humanity & awe at the positive creative potential that exists in each of us to just laugh at ourselves.. that's all I need.

.. so many good laughs & bright moments.

 

also prayer gives me peace ..like nothing else.

 

peace people.

 

 

 

Edited January 5, 2007 by free choice

[mull]

in answer to MULLAWAYS questions ..

free choice - sorry to hear about your illness mate.

It concerns me to hear it linked to cannabis also.

 

Do you mind if I ask; have you tried cannabis alone, vaporized? ..

I haven't vaped although I approve of this metheod..& would get one.

 

Do you smoke cannabis with tobacco?...

no I hate Spin ...dont use tobacco

Do you use any other drugs including anti psychotics meds and alcohol, whilst using cannabis? ..

I rarely drink ...never take anything else..

 

Do you know the strain you smoke? ...

 

most dealers I know can't tell me ..

one bastard sold me a deal that was spiked with something nasty once ..totally freeked me out ..

 

Do you grow it yourself? ...

I have in the past , it was a bag seed sativa ..... local brisbane buzz.. not too bad.

 

...I ordered some sativas from Panet skunk .. ( see my posts as "freechoice2" on Planet skunk )

will give it one last hurl ... if I crash & burn again .. that's it .it's not for me.

----------------------------------

what I can add is that my mother developed schizoprenia later in life due to a very hard time through two world wars , 9 children , malnutrition & the mental stress that ensues seeing people shot dead in the streets .., some fine tuned medication saw her recovery in her later years ...to normal.. & a happy peaceful end.

my sister displayed bipolar symptoms , but that was because she was a nurse in Saigon , in an orphanage during the war in Vietnam with similar horrors & atrocities to shock you out of your mind .......

I used to have depression too in my late teens , but that was just the blues due to growing up in a society rampant with madmen & villians & the confusion that surrounds us

( quite typical I'm told )

 

.... the blues seems to have levelled out with life experience .. thank god.. it would seem that I'm one who is close to the edge .. & it doesn't take much chemical enhancement to throw me off the deep end ..

consequently I'm rather afraid of Pot ... as it stresses my nervous system & brain functioning into psychosis .. all be it .. I return to normal if I stop ..6 months later I'm fine. happy even.

 

what i'm saying is that normal people .. sensitive & high strung ... can go over the edge with too much stress... pot stresses my nervous system if I indulge too often ..

I have observed many friends get agitated & short tempered when coming off it..

some peeps don't go well on pot I'm afraid ..

 

my apologies to folks who rally up the stuff .. praising it's virtues ..I don't think it's evil ..

I'm all for decrim , regulation & proper education .. the Dutch model is OK

 

cheers , sorry about the negative report..

I have a habit of thinking way to far & deep into things...

 

( see my post about god the universe & everything .. he he)

 

my new years resolution is to lighten up , not take things so seriously /// so far so good..

my antidote & #1 recomendation , ..I watch youtube .. "whose line is it anyway" he he

.. improvised comedy that gives us hope in humanity & awe at the positive creative potential that exists in each of us to just laugh at ourselves.. that's all I need.

.. so many good laughs & bright moments.

 

also prayer gives me peace ..like nothing else.

 

peace people.

 

 

Hi freechoice thanks for the efforts in answering those questions mate.

 

Just on a few points-

 

Said you rarely drink, and never take anything else.

So you live without meds?

Do you suffer from psychotic episodes periodically anyway, with no substances taken?

 

With your mother, peace to her memory; it sounded possible she suffered ptsd or pdsd. Its possible cannabis might have helped her symptoms. Likely small dose eaten or vaped.

Often war caused forms can be passed onto children also e.g. the high suicide rates of the children of VN vets (three times the normal av). Just be aware. You can pass on behaviour, and may mimic some of what has been passed to you

 

Said malnutrition. B vitamins mate, and a good diet/ exercise. Gotta keep all the leaves healthy, strong stems, big happy flowers and airflow.

 

Normal people can be sensitive and highstrung yep. Normal people can be insensitive and relaxed a few moments later also. Stress has an effect on all people, physically and mentally, just to differing extent.

 

Processing thought and feeling, is a job the brain does. Self preservation mate, keep it in good nic.

You know what's best for you.