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the "Fuckwit" Iamascumma to legislate for driver drug tests


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I'm with those concerned about the false positives for cannabis in the RDT. Anyone whose not had any cannabis for 4 hours prior to driving and shows positive. Thats what the government said they were testing for in black and white.

 

Up till recently it was never an issue to me driving stoned. Too stoned, dont drive, not too stoned, still drive. I used to smoke up as soon as leaving a city. Free on the highway, free from the bigsmoke, free to smoke.

But yeah it's just the way things are with law formed for the LCD.

I don't want to have to face a kid on the highway thats just had his first smoke, and his first 2 beers in the first hour and one beer an hour after that.

It's 100 km/h jousting out there, and we don't need a headon. B) Anything can happen.

 

Theres many inequalities. eg. some people have a licence but simply can't drive for shit!

another example - if I was driving legally on anti depressants, and had an alcohol level lower than .05, there's every likelihood I'd be a worse driver than any stoner. But I'd be able to legally drive thro the RDT, hopefully not crashing.

 

What I really hope is happening, is the government are laying the foundations to legalize cannabis for personal and medical use in australia.

I'm 'hoping' they are working out how to govern cannabis once it is legal.

 

There are different levels of stoned tho as we know. Eating it can be real heavy eh (yep, can even be 8 hours). For whatever reason, sometimes people will drive in any physical state. To protect everyone, the law has to blanket everyone. Unfortunately this has to be with the LCD.

 

Had concerns about the RDT database being an intelligence gathering session too. Time will tell.

 

Drive safe B)

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Wrong again ! G_H ,it pisses me off that waaaay to many people here at OzS who wish to discuss,debate,argue about this subject cannot be bothered to check the facts out first and low&behold it just so happens a website I run and have been researching for YEARS and intensively for the last year has a good deal about this subject yet I find some here are to LAZY to check out DTS(or prejudiced and poisoned by their own dogma) or even to follow the links ,its appalling. It is also SHAMEFUL to support RCT if you are a smoker/driver in light of the current research on this subject , SHAMEFUL !

I really don't have time to do YOUR research for you ,my life is busier than that but rather than continue to :peace: here you go ....

 

from the study -

Effects of Cannabis and Amphetamines on Driving Simulator Performance of Recreational Drug Users in the Natural Field

by H.-P. Krueger and M. Vollrath

Center for Traffic Sciences (IZVW), Roentgenring 11, D-97070 Wuerzburg, Germany

Illegal Drugs, Automobile Driving, Performance.1998

 

The analyses show that consumption of cannabis and amphetamines / ecstasy, only, does not adversely affect driving behavior....

...further....

Subjects under the influence of THC-COOH drive more slowly and are better able to keep the lane For THC, a comparable effect is found for lateral position (p = 0.023) and no changes in speed or reaction.

....further....

When cannabis was consumed very recently (as indicated by the presence of THC in blood) lane keeping performance improves and neither speed nor performance in secondary tasks is affected. When cannabis consumption lies some time back (as indicated by the presence of THC-COOH), the improvement of lane keeping gets even stronger. Moreover, speed is reduced....

....further...

Thus, while for cannabis use alone no impairment of driving performance was found (and even an improvement for THC-COOH).....

 

original study

 

Dutch Study that confirms the German study .

 

Further study by Robbe one of the authors of the Dutch study

 

Synopsis of current research

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How on earth could you possibly re-interpret any thing I have written to come up with I don't agree with RBT ? I am mystified how this could be possible ? I have little tolerance for drunks,have never been much of a drinker,don't drink at all anymore,the road toll has dropped during the period of RBT,its not the only factor for the drop in road fatalities.

 

See my list of questions in Post #12, your immediate response of "No I don'tr agree with anything you said Niall" in Post #13, my repeated calls for you to respond to my questions and points directly here, here, here, here, here and HERE:

 

ANSWER MY QUESTIONS JESS OR AS I HAVE EXPLAINED YOUR "I DON'T AGREE WITH ANYTHING YOU SAID" THEN MEANS THAT YOU DISAGREE WITH RBT, DRIVING AFTER RECENTLY USING CANNABIS, SPEED AND OTHER DRUGS, AND MY OTHER POINTS.

 

It's pretty simple Jess - you have not read my posts, you have not responded to my posts, and in the process you have hurled abuse at me and put words into my mouth. Put up or shut up.

 

Finally:

 

edit:What Niall still fails to understand is that there is NO SET LIMIT - there is no comparable equivalent of 0.05 - there never will be

 

The level for detection is set for between 30-50 BILLIONTHS of a GRAM of metabolites and manufacturers where urging for as low as 10 billionths of a gram of metabolites

 

Err, you're now contradicting yourself in your own posts?

Edited by niall
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:peace:

Sheesh :) Nial , What is your go man ... No offence intended .. I've enjoyed reading every post youve made that I have read ...

But seriously man ... are you a cop?? I have a feeling you are .. or some sort of scrambling politician ... ?

Soory man .. just curious aye.

:)

I don't see what the problem is .. But yet again .. What I have to say is irrelevant. (Speel*)

:peace:

Just tell em all to get fucked .. fucken pigz have no right to persucute you. I think they should do their job , and get people who shamelessly harm others ...

Not decent people.

 

Pffft! ... Impairment ... most people are so fucken stupid they they couldn't know what was what if what was actually what it was ... :).

So all your Intellectual BS goes out the window for these people ...

 

Eh .. I'm ramblin ...and no matter how much I want to delete this reply I'm not going to ...

 

But I wanted to say ... Jess Stone .. Your a champ , Generic Hippie .. I liked what you had to say , Pipeman .. yeh , I agree .. and Nial ... Cheerz mate ...

Theres no way this thread would be this long already without your considered arguments. :)

 

O.k. Then ... I was too stoned to start this reply (Ooooh , I don't drive :P ) ...and I'm too stoned too finish it ...

 

Budman ... Out. (Highest Common Denominator) :)

 

:peace:

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Niall trolls to prove his/her imaginary points ,a cherrypicker your attitude is truly banal.

I am not interested in any other aspect of this neo-nazism other than how it will impact on me and my fellow cannabinarists . NOT INTERESTED IN RBT(I don't drink it means NOTHING to me to take an RBT),NOT INTERESTED IN SPEED,NOT INTERESTED IN XTC(except the band),not RDT's no I'm only interested in RCT. Not interested in polydrug use either. The Dutch/German research clearly demonstrates that its the OTHER drugs (alcohol,amphetamine etc.) that are the IMPAIRING FACTOR.

 

Drug Test Scam is CLEARLY A PRO-CANNABIS SITE little mention of any other drug can be found there,what there is ,is mainly CRITICISM eg. Why don't they test for CNS depressant drugs like Valium,Heroin etc

I am not interested in championing Speed or Speed freaks,nor Smack or Smackies etc. Get the picture Nilcomprehension ? Provide some proof of your assertions in regards to CANNABIS and driving or GET LOST.

Your last mis-quoting ,quoting of my statements CONCLUSIVELY PROVES YOU DO NOT UNDERSTAND THE ISSUE,you do not understand the science,politics nor social consequences of this draconian ZERO-TOLERANCE of cannabis.

 

30-50 BILLIONTHS of a gram of THC-COOH is a tiny amount of INACTIVE metabolite,just leaving a smoking session of people other than yourself will show in levels similar to these(heavy hemp seed oil consumption will as well)when measured in BILLIONTHS of a gram yet DeltaTHC9 doses are measured in THOUSANDTHS of a gram ,do the maths to see how miniscule BILLIONTHS of a gram of an alkaloid thats INACTIVE euphorically speaking and even worse for the prohibitionists position THC-COOH has been demonstrated and peer reviewed and published as IMPROVING DRIVING SKILLS is compared to thousandths, It is not a level that demonstrates X percentage of the population are impaired at this level unlike RBT which through research does at RBT levels , all it demonstrates is that your body has processed some cannabis from some source not necessarily even directly some time in the preceeding hours/days/weeks and even months. Do your own research and stop being so lazy. :peace: :peace:

 

To the now obvious devils advocate G_H as soon as they announce the law and provide info as to what brand toy will be used I will purchase one. But that leaves me in a dilemma ,will I share info of measures that beat RCT if I discover one or more and risk modification to prevent deception or do I keep it to myself along with a few select friends I respect? I provided some proof that cannabis can actually IMPROVE certain driving skills as well as some proof of little to no effect on ability to drive , and this info has met peer-review requirements passed and has been published which makes it bottom line info .So back to you G_H :peace: :)

 

BTW though I am not interested in other drugs impact on ability to drive ,research has provided me with some BIZARRE insights into the amazing hypocrisy in regards to this issue,through research I found out that the USAF issues dexamphetamine to pilots,pilots in control of BILLION dollar highly technical aircraft to keep them alert and sharp! Navy pilots are issued DEXAMPHETAMINE !! The USArmy/Marines are issued DEXAMPHETAMINE in combat !!!(explains the murderous behaviour of US forces) What is Dexamphetamine ? Its one of the simplest versions of the of amphetamine family it is little different to METHamphetamine a more complex analogue of the amphetamine series ,but what does that mean? Basically one needs a smaller amount of the more complex analogues of drugs to achieve the same general intoxication ,not a different buzz or drug, the SAME and it is the case with amphetamines,another drug which many lies are clealy told about. Dex is what some ADD kids and adults get prescribed yet when it comes to illegal use the same "beneficial" drug is now an EVIL demon death drug? Huh what the fuck is this hypocrisy? But in the end its not my pet issue so let someone else do it.

Edited by Jess Stone
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Wrong again ! G_H ,it pisses me off that waaaay to many people here at OzS who wish to discuss,debate,argue about this subject cannot be bothered to check the facts out first and low&behold it just so happens a website I run and have been researching for YEARS and intensively for the last year has a good deal about this subject yet I find some here are to LAZY to check out DTS(or prejudiced and poisoned by their own dogma) or even to follow the links ,its appalling. It is also SHAMEFUL to support RCT if you are a smoker/driver in light of the current research on this subject , SHAMEFUL !

I really don't have time to do YOUR research for you ,my life is busier than that but rather than continue to :) here you go ....

 

Sorry Jess, you almost had me convinced there, right up until I realised the website you are quoting from is one run by you... :peace:

 

I know, I know, the studies aren't yours, and you're providing the best collection of information you can that assists you in "proving" your point...

 

Strange how you missed the studies I'ver read that back up what I say, failed completely to even mention them because they don't actually support your precis, they support mine...

 

SHall I find those studies for you? No, I haven't the time to do YOUR research... Sanctimonious is how you come off...

 

Researchers have confirmed that smoking cannabis can impair driving ability - but not as much as drinking alcohol.
from here...

 

Effects of cannabis on driving

Evidence suggests that cannabis produces minor impairments in a number of skills required for driving,driving, and impacts on driving performance. Therefore, cannabis use increases the chances of being involved in, and being responsible for, traffic accidents. Some of the skills affected by cannabis that can impact on driving performance include:

 

* impaired attention and lowered alertness and concentration

* increased reaction time — take longer to respond

* reduced hand-eye coordination

* affected perception of time and distance

* impaired decision-making ability

* impaired short-term memory.

from here...

 

WHilst these sites may be denounced as disreputable, not peer-reviewed and are certainly not as reputable when used by me in an argument compared with a site run and maintained by you, :peace:, I would still prefer we err on the side of caution...

 

You ignoring some information and cherry-picking other information does not make the information you choose necessarily absolutely correct... It simply means you were biased in your selection of data with a view to proving your point...

 

 

I just wonder, have any of you that are pro-cannabis driving, have any of you ever had significant parts of your health removed by somebody driving a motor-vehicle whilst on drugs?

 

Yeah well, I have, so there you go...

 

I can no longer work at my chosen trade because of a drugged driver, I have constant pain everyday because of a drugged driver, my life span has been shortened considerably as a result of what has happened to me since I was run into by a drugged driver.

 

Fuckin' stoner walked with a fine for negligent driving, a set fine for the injustice I have to pay every day.

 

How are you going to bear the consequences if you do that to somebody else?

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GH wrote:

 

You ignoring some information and cherry-picking other information does not make the information you choose necessarily absolutely correct... It simply means you were biased in your selection of data with a view to proving your point...

 

look whos talking...

 

you also wrote this:

 

QUOTE(BBC)

Researchers have confirmed that smoking cannabis can impair driving ability - but not as much as drinking alcohol.

from here...

 

lets look at some quotes from that same website GH, quotes that you selectively ignored...

 

The active ingredient, THC, can remain in the body for more than a month.

 

reaction times to motorway hazards were not significantly affected.

 

Trials previously completed under similar test conditions at the TRL have shown that alcohol and tiredness have a more adverse effect on driving ability.

 

The most obvious effect of the cannabis was that the volunteers drove more slowly, trying to compensate for intoxication by being more cautious.

 

wow, slow cautious drivers, what a menace... :)

 

I just wonder, have any of you that are pro-cannabis driving, have any of you ever had significant parts of your health removed by somebody driving a motor-vehicle whilst on drugs?

 

Yeah well, I have, so there you go...

 

Sorry to hear about your accident but it really has no bearing on the argument. However it explains why you so easily dismiss the logic of others in favour of your own opinions. As you always do...

 

and your criticisms of Jess are laughable. He puts up a pro cannabis website and you ridicule him for it?

 

you're a joke.

 

:peace:

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