Type of globe - Universal/Cool/Warm

[stonedstump]

Hi everyone,

 

At the moment I have a MH 1000w UNIVERSAL Sylvinia/Sunmaster globe.

 

I am wondering if this is the right type of bulb to use?

 

 

I am thinking of purchasing the Sunmaster COOL 1000w globe. Then in time for flowering, have purchased a WARM 1000w globe also.

 

If the bulb I already have won't do the job that is. Could someone explain this situation to me please?

 

 

 

EDIT: Should I use the Universal globe for veg and buy a WARM globe for flower maybe?

Edited July 11, 2006 by stonedstump

[Luke Skywalker]

The cool and warm deluxe sunmaster MH lamps have slighty different spectra to enhance plant response in vegetative and flowering growth respectively. Both have PAR watt ratings about the same though, (the cool deluxe has 5 more PAR watts, which could be called negligible difference really). The real difference comes between Universal and Base up lamps, which produce significantly different PAR watt ratings. (315 compared to 345)

 

Personally, I'd just get a Horticultural HPS for the flowering and growing cycles rather than an MH, but as you already have this gear, you may as well stick with what you've got.

 

BTW, I think you may have confused the lamp names. Universal is the name for a globe which can be used in any position, and there are others which are used in a Base Up position only. The sunmaster range has Cool, Neutral and Warm deluxe MH globes. And Sylvania is another company entirely, as Sunmaster lamps are made by Venture Lighting....

 

So yeah, have a look on the globe and let us know everything that is printed on it, and exactly what's written on the side of the box if you have it too. A pic would be ideal really, but you may not be able to get the detail on the globe. A pic of the box would be useful though.

 

Before there were enhanced spectra lamps in both MH and HPS, MH lamps were used for the vegetative stage, whilst HPS lamps were used for the flowering stage. Nowadays, due to work on the spectra these types of HID put out, either light can be used very effectively for both processes, with slightly different results from the same strain. The MH is weighted much heavier into the blue range, with some red in some types (like the sunmasters and other reputable horticultural brands) while the HPS is weighted heavily in the Red range of the spectrum, with most if not all horticultural lights having a significant blue component.

 

The difference between HPS and MH as far as plant growth is concerned is usually that the MH grown plants are shorter with closer internodes, and take a little shorter time to finish. The HPS plants are marginally taller, and finish a little later, but it has been said that they produce a larger end yeild as a result. There are arguments for both camps really, and I fall into the HPS one, but I'm sure there are many on this site who will swear black and blue that MH is the shiznit.

 

But yeah, get back to us on the details of the globe, I think you may be a little confused as to what's what....

 

Here's a link to SSunmaster lamp rangeunmasters' range...

[pipeman]

what is the "cool" globe is it a globe that produces less heat?

[Frazz]

Luke......damm, thats what i love about lighting questions that Luke answers.....

there's nothing left to say!

 

( except for ridiculous things that pipeman adds)

he he

 

 

[pipeman]

thought it was a legitimate question, arsehole

 

maybe if you posted something interesting for me to read I wouldn't be wasting my time in boring threads about light bulbs

[Frazz]

....yes it is a legit Q from someone who doesnt know

 

but i think you know pipeman

 

he he ......but i will try to find something to catch your interest pipes

 

[stonedstump]

thanks guys

 

thanks Luke..

 

yeah I may not of described it right. I have a Sunmaster 1000w ballast (heavy box the light plugs into).

 

I writing on the bottom of the light globe says "Sylvinnia MH M47/U" there is a couple of letters I missed but they are the important variables I think.

 

I thought there were three types of MH bulbs, I thought there is the "Universal/Neutral" (what spectrum?) one that I have, then the COOL (blue spectrum) one and the WARM one (red spectrum).

 

Should I worry about buying both cool and warm globes or just stay with the neutral globe that I already have?

 

Should I use the neutral globe for veg (will it work well?) and just buy a WARM globe only just for flowering?

 

I think I will end up using the neutral globe I have for veg, as I may not be able to afford a new cool globe just yet, I will be able to save for the warm one during veg though.

 

Thanks again in adavance to anyone who can help me out

[stonedstump]

How do I know if my globe needs replacing?

 

A bit of the white paint stuff on each end of the little gas tube inside my MH 1000w globe has flaked off and moves freely around the rest of the bulb.

 

Is this bulb almost dead? (still bloody bright)

 

 

I will be using it for vegging I think but I have a question to ask.

 

Should I buy a WARM globe for flowering this time around then when I do my next grow buy a COOL globe also.. OR

 

Simply buy another neutral globe now and use that when my plants flower then use it again for my next grow (veg and flower)?

 

Thanks everyone

[nitram]

I'll toss this reference graph up for info.

 

I found it useful

 

[Luke Skywalker]

Yeah, as I said before, the universal part just refers to the position the bulb can be used in. So you have a 1000w Sylvania Universal globe. The spectrum range specifically I'm not sure of, but if it's a typical horticultural halide, (which I'm certain it is) it'll be fine for growing and flowering. I'd still go with an HPS for flowering personally, but you'll yeild nicely with it.

 

The sunmaster ballast is usually a good purchase I've heard, but there are many others out there. Unless it's a 1100 w ballast there's probably only minor differences between it and any of the others out there. The really important part (provided your ballast isn't ancient and decrepit) is the globe itself.

 

1000w globes have a lifespan significantly shorter than that of a 400 or 600w lamp. These type of globes have a total lifespan in the 12000+ hours mark, sometimes closer to 30,000 depending on the brand, but that is total, not effective lifespans mind. That's just the time it would take for the lamp to totally conk it and die on average. It's not taking into account the lumen and PAR wattage degradation that happens over that time as well. Say it's 12000 hours right? That's enough for 95 weeks of 18hr days, or 142 weeks of 12 hour days. The actual effective lifespan when running in continous growing or flowering mode is typically 1/3 to 1/2 of that, and the higher the wattage of the bulb, the general rule is the less time it lasts in effective lumen and par watt output. So say @ 6 months of use it's about a 1/3 of the way through it's theoretical total lifespan, but it's really putting out a lot less lumens/par watts than it was when it was new. So we change lamps at short intervals. Some change with 1000w lamps in as little time as 3 months, but most are happy with 6-9. There is no way to tell the age of a lamp just by looking at it. You can have an educated guess by the condition of the arc-tube inside, but it's hard to tell the difference between used for a while and used for a long time. The human eye isn't very good at differentiating between bright as heck and bright as hell, and the only way to get some idea about whether it's okay is to compare it under a lux meter to a new one.

 

So yeah, I'd say if you can afford it, get a new lamp. Particularly if it's second hand. Some lamps have markings on the base to tell when they've been bought, but not all places do that.

 

As to the cool, neutral, and warm thing, the difference is one of spectrum. The cool ones have a bluer spectrum, the neutrals equalise the red and blue, and the warms have a more red slant to them. This can make a significant difference to yeilds if used correctly, but MH lamps aren't particularly efficient, so it may be better to get a HPS for the flowering stage if you can afford it. But you'd be fine with a cool for grow and a warm for flowering.

 

You'd do fine with the neutral output though. I'd first ask the manufacturer of your lamp, in this case Sylvania, as to whether their lamps are weighted this way. Sunmaster do it, but not all HID lamp makers have specific mixes of halides for various stages. If it's a general hort. bulb you'll grow good plants under it, no problems. (Assuming it's new or near new of course, and all else being good)

 

If you're dead set on sticking with just a halide lamp for grow and flower, then I'd say you'd only do better with a warm as opposed to neutral in flowering. But I'd still get a HPS myself, as if I haven't said that enough.

 

Hope that helps and answers a few questions.