3x 400HPS Vs 2x 600HPS?

[Sir Crop Alot]

I dont mind buying 1,2,3 even 4 600W if thats what it takes as you said better on heat and they're better on electricity. Just got to make my mind up by tomorrow night coz I wanna pick the gear up Sunday :thumbsup

 

(4 is the max though coz that will still run off a 10amp point through a 4 outlet Light Management Unit)

Edited January 6, 2006 by Sir Crop Alot

[Guest Eikel]

I dont mind buying 1,2,3 even 4 600W if thats what it takes as you said better on heat and they're better on electricity. Just got to make my mind up by tomorrow night coz I wanna pick the gear up Sunday :thumbsup

 

You can't get 600w MH bulbs, if going 600w only I'd buy 600w Son-T-Plus's.

600w MH conversion bulbs I believe actually are rated at 510W I think (anyone comment?), but I don't like them personally, they seem to fail after 1.5 or so grows (based on experience of 3 different mates who tried them for awhile).

 

At 400w SunMaster HPS bulbs outperform Phillips (Son-T) in terms of PAR watts, they also cover almost the exact same spectrums - SunMaster also provides the 30w actually, technically 60w blue spectrum component that everyone loves Phillips for (they did it first).

 

Still though, that's barely hitting 25w/sqft... you're talking about 2400watts total in that space.... I'd drop it to 2m x 2m as I said and go with 1600w (2x 600wHPS, 1 x400wMH, not conversion).

 

Anyway, it's your grow - let us know what you decide! :thumbsup

[Sir Crop Alot]

Thanx for persisting with me Eikel

 

Yeah I'll drop it to 2m x 2m x 2m, makes it cheaper for the plastic tubing since it comes in 4m lengths ::

 

I see what you mean by the conversion bulbs rating and reliability, I'll give that a miss.

 

At 2m all round am I better to go for 2x 600HPS & 2x 400MH with your suggested bulbs or stick with the 2x 600HPS and the single 400MH as described? Just thought the 4th light would help :scratchin

Edited January 6, 2006 by Sir Crop Alot

[Guest Eikel]

At 2m all round am I better to go for 2x 600HPS & 2x 400MH with your suggested bulbs or stick with the 2x 600HPS and the single 400MH as described? Just thought the 4th light would help  :scratchin

 

More light is always better, if you can add the second MH, but you gotta remember, the smaller the space gets the harder it is to cool.

 

For 3m x 3m x 3m I reckon 3 x 1000w would be easiest overall to cool and also give you best performance in terms of PAR watts plus best overall coverage because of light intensity - 600w x 4 might give you better coverage, but no where as good PAR ratings.

 

Anyway, yeah think about cooling, I originally went from 2 x 400 to 2 x 600, now I run 1 x 600wHPS and 1 x 400wMH, much easier to cool and I like the way my plants look better than running only HPS, even if I lose an oz or so it's worth it (in my opinion).

[Sir Crop Alot]

I have ducted aircon in the room and also have a refrigerated window unit I can use as well if need be so I think I'll go the 2x 600HPS and 2 400MH with the suggested globes :thumbsup

 

Eikel saves the day again! and saved me money (the best part )

Edited January 6, 2006 by Sir Crop Alot

[keepleft]

Firstly i'll tell you how to work out how many amp's the different lights use:

 

Divide the watts by the volts (240 in Australia):

 

600 watt light uses 2.5 amps

400 watt light uses 1.67

a 1000 watt light uses 4.167

 

Just remember that the ballast's pull more amps on startup so allow a buffer. After you work out how many amps you can pull from your fuse then get as many lights as you can before it max's out. A 15 amp fuse can run 3 x 1k or 5 x 600 safely.

 

Also you can stagger the on-time of each ballast a few minutes apart (if your using separate timers) so they all don't turn on at the same time if your bordering on the limit of your fuse.

 

In terms of what works best for yield - 1000watters will win hands down - provided you have adequate ventilation. In two identical 'bloom only' G-rooms running 6 x 600 watts in Room 1 and 4 x 1000 watt Euro HPS in the other (both @ 5 m2) - the 4 x 1000 watters pull @ 1/2 pound more every time (scrog setup). I believe this is because the further away from the globe you get the less lumens you have. So you get much better 'penetration' with a 1k than a 600 and lastly a 400. You can tell because the buds are bigger under the 1k's and there are buds further down the plant with the 1k's versus the 600's. i

 

However, your comments above clearly indicate that you don't want to go down the 1k option so ill continue on the basis that your limiting your options to 600's or 400's. Based on my experience as per above, go the 600's. The buds will be thicker.

 

In relation to the MH conversion bulbs that run on HPS ballasts, they are reliable (note i'm reffering to the Sunmaster MH 600 watt conversion globes) -BUT they only punch 55000 lumen as opposed to 90000+ lumen from a 600 watt HPS bulb. So avoid them unless its a veg only room (which would not appear to be the case), o if you can afford to get the both the MH conversion bulbs and the HPS globes and use the MH for veg then switch to the HPS for bloom. That would be the best option. But don't despair if you cant afford to get both MH conversoin and HPS bulbs. I have regularly run last two weeks of veg under pure HPS bulbs (either 4 x 1k son-t or 6 x 600 son-t) and they veg fine. No stretch, because if the intensity is there they will veg fine. I've also veged side by side under 2 x 400 watt hps son-t and a 1000 MH and there was no difference in stretch - although the leaves look nicer uner the MH and the colour nicer too (dark green). They veg fine under HPS Son-t only.

 

In a 3 x 3m area, you would love it if you went 4 x 1000. But, seeing you dont want 1k's go the 4 x 600 watt HPS son-t option. Note however that i dont recommend that 600's will adequately cover anymore than 90 x 90 cm. Anymore than that and the buds get smaller. So with 4 x 600 i would limit to a 2 x 2mt area.

[Guest Eikel]

Hey Perrye, good info, thanks for the amp ratings - have saved that for future use

 

Wanted to just comment on a couple 'o things though...

 

In relation to the MH conversion bulbs that run on HPS ballasts, they are reliable (note i'm reffering to the Sunmaster MH 600 watt conversion globes)

 

Thanks for that - I hadn't seen the SunMaster conversion bulbs in any of my local stores, will keep an eye out for them now - the conversion bulbs they all carry around where I am are some "no-name" (had never heard of it before) bulb - as stated they don't work that well.

 

  So avoid them unless its a veg only room (which would not appear to be the case), o if you can afford to get the both the MH conversion bulbs and the HPS globes and use the MH for veg then switch to the HPS for bloom.  That would be the best option.

 

That would be a very subjective comment (the highlighted part especially), are you talking in quality of your plants or in terms of pure yield - granted you've got it in the yield stakes, but if you refer to plant health and ideal conditions, you're WAAAAY off.

 

I don't like pure HPS at any point, veg or flower, I have also vegged/flowered under pure HPS and I much prefer MH for veg, and a combined MH/HPS setup for flower. If you read Dsyfer's grow-diary you can see a pic I posted of a clone kept in the exact same conditions as Dsyfer's plant, but under MH lighting.

(Next experiment will be to try flower under 100% MH, just to see what happens).

 

Anyway, I'm just commenting because every time I tell someone that I prefer MH/HPS combined lighting someone else jumps in (not picking at you personally here) and subtly disagrees with me saying that lumens are the most important factor therefor MH is not worth having over HPS.

PAR watts are what will affect yield greatest, not lumens, and light spectrum will affect the growth structure and metabolism of your plants (therefor affecting the ability to absorb energy and strength of the immune system).

[keepleft]

re the conversion bulbs - yeah i ran 4 x 600's that had a 'worm' on the box. cant remember the brand - cheap @ $70 each. but after 6 months one bulb just stopped working. since then have replaced it with a sunmaster conversion - there new and cost heaps more (115 versus 70 for the other brand). rated at same lumens 50,000 but so far it hasnt stopped pumping. the other 3 worm's are still going too after a year. but ill be switching em all to sunmaster eventually

 

 

i havent flowered under a mixuture of MH and HPS so i cant comment. i always thought it was best to just go pure HPS for bloom but i know in the past ive been told by gus that if you had 4 x 1k hps to chuck in a 1k MH in the middle for best results. ive always run pure hps euro's cause the lumens are crazy like 140k

 

i thought the rule was that if you flowered under pure MH you would get 10% less yield. but ive always done pure HPS Son-t at flower. the only comparison i can give you is on the 600 hps versus 1000 hps. i thought the 600 would be better cause of coverage but it hasnt been on the last 2 crops the 1k's were 1/2 lb up each time. i was suprised as well - but it was 4000watts in the 1k's versus 3600watts in the 600's. so maybe the extra 400watts in the 1k G-room account for the extra 1/2 lb?

[Sir Crop Alot]

Firstly i'll tell you how to work out how many amp's the different lights use:

 

Divide the watts by the volts (240 in Australia):

 

600 watt light uses 2.5 amps

400 watt light uses 1.67

a 1000 watt light uses 4.167

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

 

I'm not sure about those fiqures dude. According to my 400 HPS ballast, it uses 3AMP on start up, then drops to 2.3AMP stable :scratchin

 

Thank you all for all the info guys, if you have anymore comments and suggestions keep em comming :thumbsup

[Guest Eikel]

i thought the rule was that if you flowered under pure MH you would get 10% less yield. but ive always done pure HPS Son-t at flower.  the only comparison i can give you is on the 600 hps versus 1000 hps. i thought the 600 would be better cause of coverage but it hasnt been on the last 2 crops the 1k's were 1/2 lb up each time. i was suprised as well - but it was 4000watts in the 1k's versus 3600watts in the 600's.  so maybe the extra 400watts in the 1k G-room account for the extra 1/2 lb?

 

I highlighted the part you commented about yields in bold - you're basically right, you will yield less using MH than the same comparative wattage HPS light.

 

My comments about MH and HPS are based on the perspective of a personal grower, I don't need pounds and pounds to get the maximum value out of my crop, I want a good smoke at harvest, that's basically my total requirements.

 

MH I find helps the plant get over normal problems, scarids bother them less, they tolerate heat better, they don't burn or get sick as much etc etc... MH is more about the fact I would prefer all my plants to survive and be healthy rather than have possibly one die or become sick and yield less but compensate by getting 10% more on the other 2.

 

Regarding your question about the extra yield it would have to do with both the 400w of extra output in addition to the higher intensity of the 1000w lights - remember PAR (Photosynthetically Active Radiation), not lumens... the nutritional value of the light is more important than the amount of light.