Growing vs. Buying

[pipeman]

The problem with the laws in deciding what amounts of drugs are deemed to be trafficable quantities is that they apply the same rules to growers as they do to buyers, which just isn't right.

 

Someone who buys their weed is usually only going buy up to an ounce at a time and as they start to run out they buy some more. More often than not however, if someone buys a number of ounces or a pound or more, chances are they are dealers and are going to break it down and try and make some money. So fair enough, you have to set some thresholds to try and stop this sort of thing.

 

But, the personal grower can't make an ounce or two magically appear as their stash starts to run low. They harvest in crops. For example lets say a personal smoker harvests two crops a year at 10 ounces dry each. Now say they get busted when the harvest is still wet, they've just been done with over a pound and will probably get charged for something more serious which they totally do not deserve.

 

The laws are encouraging people to support organised crime and the black market by not making realistic allowances for the personal grower. It makes sense to me, that if you are busted for posession and are cultivating for personal use, this should work to your advantage, not disadvantage. Personal growers should be able to have a reasonable sized stash without being automatically slapped with charges relating to dealing. Thats just common sense and the reality of how crops are harvested. There is a world of difference between a guy buying a pound and a guy growing a pound, and the laws need to address that.

 

By making realistic allowances for personal growers the government turns a market of buyers supporting drug dealers into a market of personal growers who's money goes into legitimate, taxed businesses. And if the asshole polititions and cops still want their leverage/revenue source they can still slap us with fines whenever they find us out, but lets leave the bullshit charges of intent to distribute or whatever out of it. This is better for all concerned, the government maintains revenue through fines, saves money on court and jail costs, and less money gets sunk into the black market. It is so obvious its mind boggling how law reform still fails to recognise this.

[Chev]

The laws are encouraging people to support organised crime and the black market by not making realistic allowances for the personal grower. It makes sense to me, that if you are busted for posession and are cultivating for personal use, this should work to your advantage, not disadvantage. Personal growers should be able to have a reasonable sized stash without being automatically slapped with charges relating to dealing. Thats just common sense and the reality of how crops are harvested. There is a world of difference between a guy buying a pound and a guy growing a pound, and the laws need to address that.

The thing is, even medicinal users are being charged with more serious offences. Of course you're gonna have more than an ounce if you're a grower, bloody impossible not to. And another thing, a lot of ppl like to only grow once or twice a year as you've pointed out. That way, you can stash your ounces away in the old tuckerbox and have plenty for the year. You'd actually think that the law would be more satisfied with personal users growing in this way.

I mean, if you're running your setup all year round, how do they know you haven't actually been pumping out a lot more, then getting rid of it to dry or whatever, so you're not caught? Hell of a lot easier to be producing sellable amounts this way. And a lot harder to do if you're only growing once a year.

The summer factor comes in here. Especially for those in Qld, and other warmer climates. Come the start of the warmer weather, most growers simply cannot continue to grow, so.......? If you can only have an ounce, I can tell you, I'd be fucked. Totally. You'd need a little more for the next 3 or so months, I can tell you!!

There is beginning to be a higher tolerance to marijuana by the general public. I think that this is just the beginning of it. Maybe 5 years down the track........who knows? As long as ppl continue to use pot, and grow, more and more bigger fish will fry. Homegrowers have just about already made the ass fall out of the pot dealing, in w.a anyway. So you'd think we'd be entitled to a thank you or something.... :: Not bloody likely!

It's the smaller fish that need to be stopped from being prosecuted for something that's totally their own choice.

If the government want something to worry about, they'd better start looking a little harder at what the drug issues are with teens 2day. Because I'd be a lot more worried if I caught my kid bumpin' up ice, or smoking crack. Can be addictive after 1 or 2 times. Read an article in rolling stones mag bout it. The rural towns in America are being totally overrun with the shit. Dairy farmers cook the shit in pots, and distribute it. Besides being hooked themselves. Saw pics of whole ranches and shit being totally left to rot. Dead cattle, falling down barns, houses and shit. Coz they're 2 busy gobblin' up that crap 2 give a fuck.

What ppl here don't realise, is that it's here. And it's getting very, very popular. And they're worrying about lil' ol' me, with my little 2 plant gig. What dicks.

[WantDaChronic]

while reading all that i thought to myself there are probably 2 options that could happen...

 

1) the govt gives up and legalises the drugs that the ppl want or,

2) the govt cracks the shits and starts putting ppl away for obscene amounts of time for basically fuck all like carrying a half ounce or something...

 

The thing is drugs are everywhere in today's society and taking them away will only make us want them more...need a refernce, look what happened when the US govt tried to ban alcohol...lots of illegal operations started up, most were small personal operations while some were massive warehouse sized operations...although the pot scene in australia is very simular, making the laws even tougher will only make personal growers fewer and mass commercaial crops will be on the increase....

 

Although if drugs were legalised the first few year would look really bad cause ppl would be coming out with their drug use...the govt just dont relise these ppl were afraid about their use and kept it a secret especially considerng that for their choice they cn get locked up....crime would also increase a little because ppl would grow their own to save on costs, but what should the govt care? they want drugs outter society anyway...

[syk613]

I agree the law does not favour the grower, but as long as you only have a few plants and a few grams on you or at your residence and put the rest somewhere else (for me it would be burying it in the bush)where it won't be found they can't charge you with more than cultivation , possesion and maybe for an implement. But for some it may not be practical to hide their stash somewhere else.

Hopefully the laws will change and mj will be decrim. small amounts like ACT and SA.

 

As far as changes in the laws that define supply and possesion imo they are not going to change soon simply because it is too hard to tell who is growing for perso or for profit

[Luke Skywalker]

wantdachronic Posted on Oct 31 2003, 03:32 PM

while reading all that i thought to myself there are probably 2 options that could happen...

 

1) the govt gives up and legalises the drugs that the ppl want or,

2) the govt cracks the shits and starts putting ppl away for obscene amounts of time for basically fuck all like carrying a half ounce or something...

 

The second thing is already happening in the States... Small sentences didn't seem to work, and they weren't busting the big boys... So instead they ramped up the guidelines, and installed rabid propaganda mouthpieces as judges, and now if you get caught with a half oz you go to gaol for consecutive 99 year sentences... They're doing this to maintain the status quo for several industries in the States, including textiles ; (hemp is cheaper to produce, stronger, better in just about every way to most of the conventional textiles, and it's organic and an annual crop too.... so practically inexhaustable.) agriculture; (Cotton and several other crops are heavily dependent on large amounts of multiple pesticides and are slowly poisoning the land and planet. Hemp needs minimal or no pesticides in comparison, and grows much faster and gives far higher yeilds per acre.) recreational drugs of course; (if cannabis was legalised there would be in all likelihood a large drop over a relatively short time of consumption of alcohol and probably tobacco too, although that one could be debated. There is a lot of money to be made by the brewing corps by keeping recreational drug making out of the hands of the common man.) the prison industries; (The US has essentially privatised it's prisons, and as a direct result of prohibition, it now has 25% of the worlds prison population, even though the country only contains 8% of the worlds total population. More than 80% of these prisoners are in gaol on drug charges, which would not exist without the ridiculous state of prohibition imposed on us. Who benifits? The industries using these prisoners as a slave labour force. There are billions to be made this way.... private companies simply would not become involved if there wasn't) and of course, the military-industrial complex which is the beaurocracy of the US government. If prohibition suddenly went away, there would be a lot of money lost by the US because they've heavily invested in the industries which thrive off of prohibition. They get footholds and influence politcally and militarily in countries they otherwise wouldn't have anything to do with.

 

Grrr. *sigh* I'm just going on and on here aren't I? Well, I know the situation may seem bleak, but I still think that the re-legalisation of recreational drugs for personal consumption by consenting, informed adults will become a reality soon. There are too many of us... to many people who know it's wrong... and all it takes is to teach each and every person you know why it is wrong, and they'll realise the truth.

 

I do not want to be in the D.E.A. Head's position when the drug revolution comes tho... I have a feeling there are going to be quite a few pissed off people once the realities of the situation become known. I'll stop now, or I never will.

[chief23]

I Agree, however I believe that the courts already address these issues. For starters if you harvest more than a pound a crop, surely thats not for personal use. And if you don't get caught selling or have scales/baggies lying around when you are busted then this would support your case of personal use in court.

 

There is a real issue here, and if cannabis was leagalised then this would not be an issue.

 

Chief

Edited October 31, 2003 by chief23

[budsta]

So instead they ramped up the guidelines, and installed rabid propaganda mouthpieces as judges, and now if you get caught with a half oz you go to gaol for consecutive 99 year sentences... They're doing this to maintain the status quo for several industries in the States, including textiles ; (hemp is cheaper to produce, stronger, better in just about every way to most of the conventional textiles, and it's organic and an annual crop too.... so practically inexhaustable.) agriculture; (Cotton and several other crops are heavily dependent on large amounts of multiple pesticides and are slowly poisoning the land and planet. Hemp needs minimal or no pesticides in comparison, and grows much faster and gives far higher yeilds per acre.) recreational drugs of course; (if cannabis was legalised there would be in all likelihood a large drop over a relatively short time of consumption of alcohol and probably tobacco too, although that one could be debated. There is a lot of money to be made by the brewing corps by keeping recreational drug making out of the hands of the common man.) the prison industries; (The US has essentially privatised it's prisons, and as a direct result of prohibition, it now has 25% of the worlds prison population, even though the country only contains 8% of the worlds total population. More than 80% of these prisoners are in gaol on drug charges, which would not exist without the ridiculous state of prohibition imposed on us.  Who benifits? The industries using these prisoners as a slave labour force. There are billions to be made this way.... private companies simply would not become involved if there wasn't) and of course, the military-industrial complex which is the beaurocracy of the US government. If prohibition suddenly went away, there would be a lot of money lost by the US because they've heavily invested in the industries which thrive off of prohibition. They get footholds and influence politcally and militarily in countries they otherwise wouldn't have anything to do with.

 

Grrr. *sigh* I'm just going on and on here aren't I?  .

It's a shame but I believe you're right Luke.

I am worried we will head the same way too. The world seems to be going backwards in a lot of ways - money won not common sense.

[white_cluster]

I don't think its fair there be different rules for growers.

 

Its alot cheaper to buy in pounds, tons cheaper and if you had a good job you could afford to buy your pot that way, and save yourself alot of money, to assume someone buying a pound is a dealer is wrong.

For the smoker buying there pot by the pound has many advantages, the main one is lower cost, cutting out the middle man/men, the 2nd is the fact you won't have to go out and score deals so often, sure you'll have more pot in your house but if you are a respectable citizen its unlikely your house will be raided if you just smoke in the privacy of your home.

 

We see the problem as being the black market and crime involved with marijuana, but everyone else sees the problem as being marijuana cos they dont smoke the shit.

[pipeman]

The second thing is already happening in the States... Small sentences didn't seem to work, and they weren't busting the big boys... So instead they ramped up the guidelines, and installed rabid propaganda mouthpieces as judges, and now if you get caught with a half oz you go to gaol for consecutive 99 year sentences...

 

thats just not true. where are you getting that from mate?

[Luke Skywalker]

Yeah, okay, I was exagerating a bit... I'm absolutely certain that there are citizens of the states who have been sentenced similarly for cannabis convictions tho... Even if they were just growing for themselves. I've seen several documentaries about the War on Drugs which have shown many, many prisoners in gaol for looooong stretches for what we would call minor possesion charges. And yeah, just for weed. I'll try and chase it up if you like... might take a while knowing me tho...

 

The US "justice" system is geared more towards making lawyers rich, than making justice happen. Plea Bargains are frequently used by unscrupulous Public defenders to make the system run quicker, rather than better. Even if someone has committed a crime, they have a 6th amendment right to a trial before a jury of their peers. Many PD's don't bother to tell their clients this.

 

"My job is to enforce crime, other than that I don't know...." - Police Officer on Michael Moore. ::

 

The drug war is nothing short a war crime against the people it's purporting to be trying to protect. :angry: