O.K,
I've always been interested in the effects of cannabis on users who have depression. I myself take an anti-depressent, and have done since about half-way through puberty.
Studies are now showing that people younger and younger are being affected.
I recently read a story on an 8 year old australian boy who was taking the same as me, Zoloft. He had been since he was 4, I think.
Now b4 anyone throws their arms in the air, and starts saying how terrible it is......
Do you remember what it was like? Being a kid, and the smallest things are sometimes are the biggest, in small minds anyway. And you can feel so isolated, like nobody else is on the same planet as you.
I'm glad that poor kid found a doc willing to help out. Other avenues were tried, and failed, so it was a last resort. He is now a fully functioning normal little boy, who has freinds and likes life. B4, he'd spent years depressed, crying over nothing and totally withdrawn from others.
A fucking 4 or 5 year old. That's sad. He actually made me cry while he explained how he felt so happy now, and that he'd actually contemplated suicide b4. At that age? I didn't even realise they knew what it was.
Well, the whole issue is why? Why are our kids becoming like this at such an early age? Some health professionals are saying drug use by mum, some say it's the way we're evolving. What do you think?

Depression in children is usually caused by a combination of four things: genetics,inviroment, what is happening in a person's life, and what is going on in their body. Usually, more than one is present in a child.

IMO

I spoke to a psychiatrist the other day who believed that the old school methods of bashing a kid into shape and being a strict disciplinarian gets the best results, especially with problem children.

Toturing children doesn't make them better children, just better torturers.

But on the depression thing, I do agree with boulder to some degree, but I am aware that the seretonin re-uptake inhibitors or tri-cyclic anti-depressants are a fairly radical advance in treating some forms of chemical brain disfunction. But they aren't for everyone, and they aren't the be-all cure for depression.

I've suffered from pretty severe depression for most of my life, I had a quite unhappy childhood regardless of my socio-economic status at the time, (which was quite reasonable actually) and I now know that it's a medical problem which I can't fix with these drugs, as I've gone through the gamut of them to no avail. Now, that probably biases me against them to asome degree, but I would warn everyone not to imagine them as the answer to all your problems. Although they are a great help to those it works for... it's not the actual cure, just a way to it.

The epidemic of depression in children and youth today I feel is like boulder said, genetics, environment, where a person is in life and bodily function effects. There is also a fair case for a lot of the chemicals we as the modern generation and the ones before us have been exposed to as a factor in modern mental illness. It could also be something to do with excessive reporting, although I must admit my saying that is only anecdotal, not based on any figures of reporting rates. I'd imagine that the present arrangements between doctors and pharmaceutical companies on an individual referral basis is probably having an effect on the rates reported of depression, as well as a whole host of other diseases... I'm not saying this is the only cause behind the seeming explosion in depressive illness in society and young people in particular, but we do have to take it all into account.

I look forward to the next 20 years or so of medical research and medicinal development. There are a heck of a lot of things about the human brain and body which we just have no idea about. I watched a speaker on National Press Club not that long ago... and he said that of the treatments given to patients in the form of prescription today, 25% of them have no scientific basis or evidence of their effectiveness. We just don't know if it works, or if it does work, they don't know how.... As we delve deeper into molecular biology and neurological functions of the human body and life in general, we'll probably start to lick these problems like understanding brain dysfunction and mental illness, although it's only a part of the whole solution. I hope we don't just end up all the same, but I look forward to medical science opening up doors and lifes for those who would otherwise be crippled by a simple chemical imbalance... or whatever their particular problems of medical nature they may be....

The thing is that we can only guess as to the real nature of mental illness and what the human mind really is, and until we understand it better, we can only take guesses as to what may help. Just be aware of that.

Oh, and everyone should just go and find someone to hug... makes you feel much better.

Yeah, well. Sorry pipeman, you shoulda told the guy to get fucked. I'm not even going to comment on the above, don't really think I need to........One thing, put it this way. My father was very, very old school. If anything, it was like holding a red flag up 2 a bull.

Obviously, yes, there are factors that need to be considered. But, sometimes, there is no absolute dead set reason for this.
Growing up as a kid of a Vietnam Vet, who suffered PTSD, depression, high blood pressure, and was also a regular drinker, I know this has contributed to my bouts.
I actually become quite manic. And sometimes under real bad stress, I can become obsessively compulsive. Clean continuously, not happy with certain things etc. Even down to re-arranging furniture, or moving my things around so they are perfect.
But I have overcome the severe depression I had as a youngster, and I will say that it has been sped along by the meds I take. I do still suffer with bouts now and again, but I mean, I can still get outta bed and get on with it.
Meds are not the answer completely, but they can be a very important part of the process. And yes, they definatley aren't for everyone, and those that do have a reaction to them, can actually end up very sick.
My father has told me since, that he was exposed to agent orange quite severely. He was on the choppers that pulled in the dead and wounded.......I think field ambo would be it. So.......no wonder he was never the same. Both me and my bro have depression, and take the same meds. We were both hypo, him more than me, and had a couple of other hitches. To cut a long story short, could his exposure to Agent Orange have contributed to my probs? I think it could be included in the factor factor. I'd do a couple of topics on it, but I'm probably the only one around who it's relevant to. Unless guests would read it? Agent Orange exposure was pretty common with vietam vets, so I wonder if it'd be worth posting about? What u guys think?

yeah well chev I disagree. I think parents are too soft on their children these days and this is contributing to the problem. Obviously there is a limit, your case sounds like an extreme, thats not what I'm talking about. I'm talking about tough, disciplined parenting and bloody well smacking the kid when they do something wrong. It works more often than not IMO. But needs to be reinforced both at home and at school, or in the case of divorced parents, from both parents. Its where you get one party not holding up the discipline where things usually run amuck.

Some people equate abusive parents with disciplined parents, I don't. You can beat hell out of your kid and still be the most undisciplined and bad parent in the world. why? because you are belting the kid because of your own problems, not theirs. This sounds like your situation with your Dad.

I'm with chev on this one, respect is what is needed. I have been a parent for 17 1/2 years, a sole parent for the last eight, and my children have never received your sort of discipline from me, as I have their respect they willingly conform to the rules I have set down for their behaviour. I have not found the need for physical punishments to get my way, a polite question usually does the job (the kids are my coffee slaves). I also believe that smacking encourages lying, violence between siblings, bullying and other anti-social activities. Respect is earned through gaining the child’s trust, it cannot be gained by using violence, that only promotes fear and hate.

If I can't out think and out manoeuvre my kids then I am wasting my time as a parent.

I see your point and you could be right Taz. But in the real world there are consequences if your screw up, you don't always get to talk things through like with your level headed Dad. Being smacked when you knowingly do something wrong is a good lesson for this IMO.

but, I have no kids of my own, so perhaps I'll defer to you and chev on this one

Didn't you have a go at someone else for talking about things in which they

haha, yeah well, at least I admit it

It's not at all. My father didn't belt the hell out of me all the time. He was, and still is, a very highly strung person. I'm the same.
I turned into a monster when I hit my teens, as most do. But my dad didn't belt me up. He has lost it, some parents have, I'm sure.
But he did the best he could, under the circumstances. He's a great dad, and grandad.
He NEVER really hit me for nothing. It was small things he sometimes used to trip at. And his father was a very strict man too, used to be the old "children should be seen and not heard" bullshit.
I now have the upmost respect for my father, and we love each other 100% he'd give me, or anyone else, the shirt off his back.
He is not, and never really was (intentionally) abusive. It was, if anything, the way he'd self destruct that would get me down.
I did not mean to give the impression I was fully belted up, or abused. It was just the way you brought your kids up in those days for a lot of ppl. My mother was opposite. Gentle, quiet. I had a balance, so I was lucky.

And look. There's being smacked, and then there's just being belted. And yes, there is a huge difference.

Zoloft and shit is fucking bullshit, I was on em for a year and they turned me into this fucking zombie cunt with good manners who was always real nice to everyone. But then I went a bit mad and dissappeared and them things made me go mad, being without them, I didnt think they did shit while I was on them but when I got off em I felt like shit, I sat and cryed like a girl for the whole day and in the middle of the night this security guard got me and took me to hospital and I had shitted and pissed myself. got hypothermia. They used to make me pass out and shit too when i stood up cos I got low blood pressure.

ummmm, dude....did you just like, stop taking em'?

thats the thing with anti-depressants or any medication that controls a mental condition, people start to feel good and think they can stop taking them, then when they stop they go nuts again and its hard to get them back on. More of an issue with schizo than depression though.

WC you don't strike me as someone who needs anti-depressents anyway. You seem more together than a lot of people I know, which is why you're a good whipping boy.

Hehe, yeah, who's your daddy....?

I WANNA HEAR YA SQUEEL BOY!!!!!

:: I don't

I read an article once where a boy was depressed like the one in your story chev. He'd been through the merri go round of anti-depresants, I suppose the nausea, sleepless-ness, and the sleepiness. Funny both happen huh.

Anyway, they tried everything with no success, until the shrink suggested a touch of hash in some biscuits. I suppose the parents must have mentioned it, but I don't know.

I personally have the idea kids oughtn't use drugs usually. I don't even know if there's a reason for me to hold this view, or if it's just an environmental thing I have grown up and accepted, or what. I havent paid that much thought to it.

Anyway, the hash worked. The kid picked up, and for the first time in his memory he was happy. He was then prescribed it under the medical marjuana law in the american state it took place in, and then was challenged by one and all because of his age. then it was stopped (legally at least)

Funny, we have a society were it's not only ok to put anti-depressants into kids, but it's ok to use experimental ones too. No real way of knowing the outcome short term, let alone long term. But a bit of pot and it's crossed the line. Weird. Excpected, but wierd.

I'm all for using whatever it takes, anti-depressants included. I just thought it was a strange case of standards.

Apparently kids in rustafarian (spelling?) start to use grass early, i dont know how it effects them?

But if it works for this little kid, then why the hell not?

Cheers all.
rob

Whilst I am not a supporter of kids using pot, I can see the need for it being available to them as a prescribable medicine.

Robbieganjaseed, being a late night TV addict I saw a hour long documentary on this case on 20/20 (american ACA).

I reckon it was fucking wrongest thing I've ever seen, and If you had actually seen the boy and not just read about him you would have a different perspective.
The article was presented like this little boy was being saved by marijuana, but in truth he was just too fucking stoned to know what was going on, When interviewed he sounded ridiculous, could only get a couple of words out a minute and couldn't stop using the word "man" and "dude". He ran around like a little fairy and really acted like a fucking retard. fucking crazy shit, Drug fucked 10 year olds is OK???

Hmmm..I saw another case where an 11 year old committed suicide and nobody blinked an eye becuase he was extremely unhappy his whole life.......nothing would make him happy...pills....... nothing

In rare cases like this peraps they should have at least tried something else as radical as it is

WC doesnt sound like you were on zoloft...its quite a mild antidepressant...unless of course you were taking 150 mgs or so...

Perhaps you were on a tri cyclic anti depressant...they seriously sedate you and stop you being angry...and generally just lack emotion...zombie like..

But to a degree hardcore mj use and anti depressants just dont mix in my opinion....one negates the other and confuses the brain and it neurochemical responses.....

Anti depressants are overprescribed...its a rite of passage in America...zoloft/aropax is a household name...its sad really to see a nation of pill poppers who are hardline against mj...

But it is western style medicine fer sure...treat the end product instead of the cause...why dont they spend more time finding out why people are depressed....because of the $$ involved in prescribing meds...

Fair enough mate. It's true, you can write anything up to sound how you like. I'm actually glad I mentioned it. It's a case I often think about.

If it was as you say, and I believe ya; then ya right. Stoning people out to control them was somethingt hat the phsycology world stood accused of in the middle part of last century. With barbs back then, and it was wrong. It can't be any better just using a different drug, same results.


rob

Budwaver; drug companies are just huge dealers. Get a person hooked on a product, and you have him for life. In fact, the hollywood ideal of a drug dealer, giving away drugs until a person is hooked, and then charging like a wounded bull, is nothing at all like the real world of illict drugs.

But the legal drug trade is exactly like that.

Same as pain killers. They have a habbit of recommending doses much higher than actually needed. Doctors have a habbit of prescribing much less than is needed, because thy're caught in the middle, trying to work it all out. But the drug companies are keen as mustard to have everyone on some kind of regular medication.

The local GP is just the front man for the biggest drug dealers in the world. GPS just get told week by week by their drug reps what to prescribe for what condition, kick backs and junkets are common, and a never ending line of people being introduced to some adictive substance and everyone is happy.

Well, u know...
cheers
rob

Children need a happy house and parents who don't reflect trheir worries upon them. My daughter is 8 years old now and she's always singing and having a great time, eventhough she's an only child, her parents devorced and is playing alone a lot. I guess depression with children has to do with stuff loaded upon them that they can't handle. Avoid that and they're happy.
I also believe that we have to take care what they eat, NO colorants or other chemicals in their food, all those chemicals have a reaction on their mood and that's proven. My kid never got chemicals, only natural stuff also because both her mother and I only eat biological food.

Its true that the drug companies court the GP's sending them on junkets, free dinners, movies, lunches etc. I know a fairly large GP practice where lunch is laid on free every single day by a different drug rep. just so they can give a little 10 minutes presentation while they eat.

But, it is not the evil conspiracy to get people hooked like you say. They don't get direct bribes and kickbacks. As you pointed out Doctor's are unwilling to prescribe large amount of addictive drugs, or even any addictive drugs at all. They make no extra money by getting people hooked and in fact it makes their life much more difficult if they start to get a lot of patients hooked on drugs. How would know this yourself Rob from your personal experiences. So it is actually happening less and less. And the reality is addictive drugs only form a very small percentage of the entire spectrum of drugs available, so it really isn't a big issue.

Now if the chemists could hand out these drugs direct, then you'd have a real corruption problem, but thats not the case. We have a system where the person prescribing the drug, the Doctor, does not profit by their choice. And in fact with the strict government regulation we have in Australia they start to come under the microscope if their prescription profile starts to fall outside the norm. Sure they get to go away for free weekends and movies and dinners and shit but thats no big deal. If you have a practice busy enough for the drug reps to pay that much attention to you, you are making so much money anyway that these things are no big deal and will not really influence your decisions at all.

my input in this one is:

If you dont have kids that live with you then you should keep quiet, as you dont have a bloody clue what ya on about,

My 9yr old that is autistic and also has addhd,
He is on Zoloft and has been since he was approx 7yrs old, he also take catapres, and ritalin.

Now before he was on the zoloft he was just a blubbering mess,
People Depression is not caused by anything external, it is a chemical reaction or chemical unbalance in the brain,

The depression that is caused by external things like the home etc is NOT depression, its just the blues and there is a big difference.

I would rather have my kids on prescription drugs than having anger fits, emotional rollercoaster, you know what I mean anyways.

On the other hand My Mrs has been on Zoloft for over 5 years, When she tries to cut down she goes mental, and actually one day ended up in a mental home cause she tried to hard to cold turkey it,
Zoloft and other drugs will not work if its not needed, they repair a chemical problem in your body,
Maybe if zoloft did zombie you then your doctor misdiagnosed or something.

WP thats fuicken scarey for a child that fucken YOUNge , do u know that cause your child been on them for so ling that he will never develove in his brain proper , an would never be able to get off them to quick
NOW dont fucken tell me i know nuffin i have a little bro thats aspergese an adhd an so on . poor kid is gone his mother had skitzofreania.. now he is fine on meds, jsut talks to much an everythin in the world is like the end of the world , NOW i could see him doin somehtin silly
constantely says he hates him self an so on , But its not just the drugs that made him this way BUT he will never function as he allways had Pills controlling his moods an an mind state , .

You know the alternitve stufdf works . like special diaet an so on , My little girl is one of the happiest i see , she allways sings an playing like a normal cild Cept her smartness gets her in trouble casuse she LOVE to push mums buttons,
But if she gets adhd which is god dam possible cause i was an suffer depresions, So did he sperm dad NOW he an his family have mental probs..no i just dont say that cause i hate them..

Zorlof is fucken bad.. it makes you mind dependency an U shouldnt mix weed with any prescribed drug. it wil..ll fuck with your triceptors

My bro almost comited suiside While on zorloft He had no idea what happen , I think the feelin you get on anti depresents is gross, i d be stuck in the bed wantin to throw up most of the day.. now as a mum how the fuck can u do anytin when u feel sick an numb an want o just lay there thinkin everythin is Aok BULLSHIT
u get depresed u let it,, i know when im goin to have a downer an so on an i can prepair for it.ANTIdepresents were just not for me,,,'

Now witht hte children an weed, pi think its wrong to a point , But i have heard of mothers smokin around theire babys when they had trouble feeding them wich would stimilate there hungry , Now if u could take out the bad stuff an leave just the Mae u sleep an eat for kids it be sweet,

sorry ravin been sick most of nite wish I JUst THROW UP AN GET IT OVER with instead of feelin like im about to...

I hate all antidepresents an would never use them or let my child ever.

weekprik you are wrong when you say depression can't be caused by outside influences. Of course it can. Your kids may have chemical problems, but not everyone's kids are the same as your kids. Also, being aware of sources of stress in your lifestyle and addressing them can often help control chemical depression in confunction with medication. It can be one, or the other, or both.

Any black or white opinion on the operation of the human brain is usually wrong. It is a complex mechanism that even experts don't understand. A lot of these anti-depressent drugs are just used through trial and error. Thats how primitive our scientific knowledge of the brain is.

ok kewl, SO I abuse my children because they are on medication that includes an anti-depressant,

BB I challange you to look after my boy for 2 days on no Zoloft, Ritilin, or Catapres.
I bet you couldnt handle it,

I was so against giving him any drugs at all, but It just breaks my heart watching my son without the meds,
I would rather he has the zoloft etc than seeing the sad shell of a boy that no drugs makes.



Oh I was just repeating what 3 different depression specialists have told us, I know nothing of the medical profession but just assumed that 3 doctors telling me the same thing, well I tend to believes them.
I also have spent alot of time researching at the library and on the net about depression,
but hey fuck Ive been wrong before havent I ,


DOM , whats your thoughts??????????

could it have been that the docs were telling you the issues with your children, not all children?

Ive taken care of a boy who was on ADHD drugs and stopped taking them. Sure he was crazy but Im pretty sure a minority of kids have always been crazy and I grew up with it so I could handle this boy without his sedatives. I sometimes think of how many of my friends would have been on ADHD drugs while I was growing up if the drug had been around.

I watched some thing on ABC lately about some crazies [a common term IMO] in England who were released from mental hospitals into homecare - Id probably give kids like these sedatives as anyone can tell they have a mental disorder [they remind me of me when I was young - scary] but some of the kids Ive seen taking AD&D drugs is depressing [social behavior should be learnt gradually and drugs should be a last option].

Zoloft is cheaper than staying at Boys Town.

I agree with that, but I think as a last resort, really.
I know BB you've had trouble with it, but there are ppl who can, and ppl who can't. Like anything I spose. But it doesn't mean it'll be fucked for everyone. And as for a chemical imbalance, which I have BESIDES depression, there is not much you can do except take meds to correct that imbalance, ie zoloft. I only take 50mg, I automatically cut mine in half anyway. And it works fine for me.
WP, you do what you gotta do matey. Ritalin is a bastard, but if your son is like that, then it's a sad fact of life, but it must be done. You can't let kids suffer, coz you think it's wrong or bad to give them meds at that age. You give em' what you're told to, and what makes them happy, comfortable kids. The most important thing is LOVE. Children will always respond to affection, and if you have a happy stable home, with lots of laughs, smiles and cuddles, you can't go wrong, meds or not I think you guys with kids know this already!

YEs Yrs ago the boysd were normal an i could handle lookin after them Aspergers is ALOT worse then adhd imagin a kid that is both.. he was normal an well his body an brain is fucken without it
He can heal proper an takes weeks even moths to get over a cut..
I just think IT is the easy way out an parents that cant control the kids, to be honest MY parents cant handdle either EVEN when on medications..the result of there head been complety controled an changed to the way the meds make u go
..Anti depresents to is JUST fucken wrong on any child.. You wouldnt give your child Mj or amphetimines on perpouse would u?? im sorry im gettin upset BUt i see my too little bros LONG term results since they were 7 both over 10 an very emotions an no idea how they can handle the normal world with out the drugs..BOTH kids hate taken them cause it has lots of side effects them..REALLY REALLY look up an what it can do to your child long term...ITs not a good thINg.. Ya all think im wrong BUT hey im aloud my view on this fucken up world that runs to meds to help shit
depresion is mostly life situations..suffered it since i was a kid an know whats it like,,anyhow there is other ways to try

A significant chunk of children's"disorders" can be simply solved with diet! WTF has a 4yr old got to be depressed about anyway?

My seretonin Levels have been stuffed since the age of 15... mainly due to the use of MDMA that stuff will make you feel great but will depleat your receptors like nothing else..

we have not needed anti depressents until the last few years, why would society need them so much now?

i dont know what to think but i dont believe the kid will turn out allright on anti deps. no offense

Omega 3 fatty acids play a large role in brain function. In this day and age people are eating more and more processed foods which are almost abscent of good fatty acids. When i start feeling down for no good reason i can often relate it to my diet shifting towards lots of shitty take away food and little fruit and veg. Nowdays if i feel depressed i eat lots of oily fish, fruit and veg and it works wonders for my mental state. I think there is a real problem with western medecine in that doctors tend to treat symptoms rather that the cause of a given problem. Not nearly enough attention is given to correct nutrition, which has a fundamental role in overall health. As the old saying goes you are what you eat. These days too many kids are raised on instant noodles, lollies and processed foods and i'm sure it plays a big role in depression and suicidal tendencies at a young age. I'd be interested to find out what the young fella mentioned eats for brekfast lunch and tea (I bet it's all from jars, tins and take away food outlets). As hippy as all of this sound's it really fucking works, anyone out there feeling depressed - eat oily fish 3 times a week with lots of fruit and veg and you will feel better, guaranteed.

What good, healthy advice. Get off the meds.....get on the ganja