I asked the members of my class what their views were on legalization. Here are their comments:

1) just trying to play devil's advocate here...supposing we were to make it legal... some questions we would need to ask: who is going to grow it? would it be more lucrative for american farmers than growing, say, staples like corn and wheat? would that affect global food prices? who is going to regulate the product for safety? how and where is it going to be sold? will making it legal make it easier for children to get a hold of because they could "steal" it from their parents? who is going to get rich off of selling it? where are people going to be allowed to smoke it? how would deal with the legal ramifications of smoking in public? and would their be an increased social danger of drivers smoking while driving, similar to driving while drunk? and once its legalized, what is to prevent people from making the argument that other drugs should be legal, too? drugs that have a higher rate of accidential overdose deaths?

this issue isn't really one I have a vested interest in...overall I think the government should interfere in our lives as little as possible...but the US doesn't really work like that much of the time. so you have to ask if giving Americans more freedom in this area would have the effect you intend or if it would just cause more problems. so those are the questions I would ask.

2) It is definitely more benign than many pharmaceuticals, but were also talking apples and oranges. The hardcore Pharmaceuticals may be fun, but they serve a totally different purpose than Medical Marijuana. Oxycontin, Methadone, Morphine,Lortab ad nauseum (literally!) are specifically for pain relief (And Methadone is also for treating Heroin addiction); Marijuana is used for appetite, sedation, Glaucoma, and anxiety. So Legalizing pot for medical use would really only benefit those suffering from those symptoms, and like I said above, some Synthetic drugs may actually work better.

Again, not exactly against it, but we should take not of what purpose it would serve. I doubt legalizing it for medical use or just in general would reduce the abuse of the harder rx drugs.

There are no regulations on who can brew their own beer, so why the need to regulate the growth of cannabis? However if some regulation was deemed necessary I suppose a simple licensing/grow permit system could be used, as long as it remained relatively inexpensive for personal growers.



I doubt it would affect food prices, and while initially sales would be lucrative, I would guess the amount of farm space to keep the commercial market satisfied would be relatively small compared to food farming space overall. The black market manages to keep most people supplied with covert grows as it stands now so I think its a fair bet if growing in the open is made legal it wouldn't take many fields to meet the demand.



well since it is a relatively safe product and impossible to dangerously overdose regulation for safety shouldn't be a big issue. I suppose it could be sold from licensed shops similar to the medical MJ dispenseries that are already legally operating in parts of the USA and Canada.



Its legal status will not change its rates of use and if anything regulation will make it harder for kids to get their hands on. We have witnessed the war on drugs for long enough to know that.



I don't know, who gets rich off selling tomatoes? Some will make a living at it no doubt nothing wrong with that but with legalisation the prices will drop so it won't reap the same kinds of profits people can make under the present black market system. And the government will benefit from taxes and licensing which they currently miss out on by forcing the industry underground.



No reason why the same rules that apply to tobacco smokers couldn't be applied to cannabis smokers.



There is no real evidence that driving while stoned presents a safety risk. In any case its easy to test for so this shouldn't be an obstacle to legalisation.



Certain drugs have already been legal for hundreds of years, and others illegal for hundreds of years. There is no reason to think a change in policy in cannabis will result in a change in policy towards other drugs, especially when you consider cannabis really is in a class of its own and compared to most other illegal drugs its relatively non addictive and harmless, and impossible to overdose on.



I can't see what problems legalisation would create. It would obviously solve a whole lot of existing problems such as lack of quality control due to the nature of the black market, stopping the waste of tax payers resources persecuting cannabis users and growers not to mention the social injustice of this persecution, and would generate increased government revenue that could be put into health care and education. Also legalisation would reduce the incidences of the abuse of other more dangerous drugs because people looking to score some smoke would no longer need to associate with drug dealers who offer them other substances.

I have thought up a similar argument to yours but I agree with everything you said. Hopefully I'll get some responses from the class to see where they are going with this... Thanks for the response I know it was a lengthy question.

ok permit system applies for legalisation purposes, mess up and you lose your permit to grow / posess

look for the positives in law reform ...
conservative estimates put the savings to govt. resulting in cannabis permits at $270 million .. via huge reduction in prisons, policing and law courts ...

why legalise .. because it is so unfair to imprison man just for using one of Natures' gifts

very true also you would get rid of the ridiculous profiteering of law agencies. the drug war starts to look at a easy way to get some tax payer money after put under some criticism

If the bible said smoke this bud in memory of me instead of drink this wine in honour of me in church....we'd all be puffin on it...

Seperate church from state

Perhaps you could debate why your federal government see's fit to impose it's drug policy on the rest of mankind?
It really pisses the rest of the world off

Ashton Kutcher said something extremely similar on Bill Maher. I got a kick out of that. But I mean it's true but at the same time I mean look at the Bible. God says every herb and plant on this earth is for mankind. I think a member has that on their signature.

But it's true church and state are just too interlocked whether people believe it or not.

You'd be surprised my friend. I'm at a liberal college and the kids and teachers here are certainly not happy with some of the ideals of our government. I'm more of a social liberal and fiscal conservative but shit we really need to stop trying to police the whole fucking world in matters that aren't our business. We would be better off and so would the rest of the world.

No real debate there.

hmmm I guess so.
So what do you guys think of 9/11? Do you think/agree there is a fairly clear, monumental amount of evidence to suggest the same Federal government, with that grinning monkey in charge, was responsible for murdering over 3000 American citizens in pursuit of these same ideals?
I do. 3 multi storey buildings DO NOT fall to the ground at free fall speed in perfect implosions by themselves.
Also, if your class agrees, do they think that this obnoxious group of greedy uppercrust 'untouchables' in pursuit of their own greedy ideals, is the main reason behind the continuing refusal to acknowledge many of your states and local governments constituents propositions to decriminalise/legalise Cannabis?
Such a great country, led by shit leaders ever since JFK. Lincoln was the best president America ever had.

two are the problems: church is one (and I'm Italian..), but the first is that all the world followes the U.S, so my fear is that till the U.S. will make something, nothing will change..
For the legalization: in Holland they sell weed and hash in special bars, called coffee shop, and it's similar to the tobacco: someone can grow with a license, then the State gain with taxes on it...
And the simple motivation for legalize is that nobody is ever death for marijuana, for tobacco and alcohol and all the others drugs is not possible to say the same...
Last thing: let me grow in peace my fuckin plants, i don't wanna go to buy hash in the streets and give money to criminals (Mafia 40% gain come from drugs selling..)
Sorry for my english if is not perfect..

the world does not follow the US. The US blackmails smaller, poorer countries by threatening to withhold aid and exclude them from their "free trade" agreements.

Lets hope that with the collapse of the US economy this will no longer be the case.

I found that pretty offensive, and very inaccurate.

Why do you think it's inaccurate & why were you offended by it?

The irrelevance of the point notwithstanding, the buildings did not fall to the ground by themselves.

They were struck by 200 ton planes travelling at 300 miles an hour. Or summit. I was surprised that they didn't collapse immediately.

You were surprised they didn't fall over immediately 'cause they were hit by a plane or summit?? wow good argument.
Do you realise, not ONE skyscraper anywhere in the WORLD has ever burnt to the ground YET? none, anywhere, EVER.
Free fall speed, look up the term if you don't understand what it means, in regards to the THREE buildings that fell down that day, not one of them met any physical resistance, AAAAALLLLLLLLLL the way down, nothing stopped them, no twisted metal, no out of shape wreckage to skew them, no compacting column of rubbish no compaction from ANY of the concrete levels the whoooooooole way down, just THREE PERFECT implosions, all around 10 seconds, all in one day, and it's never happened even once before.
Those buildings were designed to withstand the impact of a larger airliner.
The 3rd building WASN'T EVEN CLOSE to the other 2 !!! A smaller building beside the two got absolutely smashed as they came down yet it mostly stayed in one mangled piece, and upright.
Have a look at the numerous accounts from EYEWITNESSES that said they SEEN and SAW explosions from all different parts of those buildings.
Ever see the plans of those towers and see how much steel went into them?
How could the identity of the evil arab suspects float out of their pockets, out of a burning airliner, out of a burning building, and fall nicely on the street to be found as crucial evidence?
Ever see any wreckage of that plane that flew into the Pentagon? me neither? no smashed engines, no twisted fuselage, no wheels, not even any fricken skid marks on the fricken grass for Christ sake!!!!!!!!!!
I could go on.
The people who are in government in The United States could legalise Cannabis tomorrow if they wanted to, forget about the international conventions they signed up to, breaking a few more won't hurt. It's nothing compared to invading another country or MURDERING YOUR OWN CITIZENS.
In my opinion it is absolutely relevant and has EVERYTHING TO DO WITH WHY LEGALISATION hasn't happened in the US as well as Canada.

Sound crazy? Open your eyes, have a look, use your brain.

Thankyou.

That's coz no other skyscraper has been clobbered by a 200 ton jet travelling at 300 miles an hour. Or summit.

.....and these observations conflict with your extensive experience of observing other skyscrapers collapse after being struck by a plane?

Utter, complete twaddle. You're making shit up here. They were not designed to cop an aircraft strike of any size.

Third shmird.

I seen it! I seen it all! SOLD!

Erm, no. No I haven't. And neither have you. And even if you had, your lack of experience with regard to big-ass planes hitting big-ass buildings would render your viewing of the plans meaningless.

How come my dog can lick his balls but I can't?

I saw some skid marks the other day, but not on the Pentagon lawn.

No doubt.

I agree that George W is a retarded homicidal cunt, and that vested interests and religious fucks are keeping pot illegal, but I haven't seen any credible evidence that 9/11 was a govt conspiracy.

Yes.

The proper intermanet spellering is "brane".

You have no argument, your just another brainless(spelt brain) fuckwit
Free fall speed, you dumb cunt, have a look at what fell down that day
AND YES BECAUSE OF THEIR HEIGHT THEY WERE DESIGNED TO WITHSTAND AN IMPACT BY A LARGER AIRLINER YOU STUPID FUCK
The 3rd building you ignorant, stupid LOUD MOUTH red neck was only 47 stories high, but I bet you didn't even know a 3rd one fell, did you, you cock smoker?
I have plenty of links to some REAL information, they are on the database here, you on the other hand, have only your smart mouth and lack of brain power propelling your argument, so go root a goat, your wasting my time, BOY.

Po if you are not up for logical debate without resorting to name calling you show yourself as closed minded.

You have come on and hijacked Joe's thread after he had asked a serious and important question.
If you have nothing constructive to say SAY NOTHING

It is always better to be thought a fool than to open your mouth and remove all doubt

I've got some pics of the small hole in the pentagon about 20 minutes or so BEFORE it collapsed, with windows still intact, no debris on the nice clean lawn, no wings or engines, etc.... And footage of a news reporter showing it and saying there's no sign of a plane there...
URL=http://images.google.com/images?hl=en&q=pentagon+hole+before+collapse&btnG=Search+Images&gbv=2

Do you remember the name of the thread or have the links handy please Bufo, I'm always up for more good info to collect & share with those who don't want to know?

Thanks Bufo if u can remember where.

MO

Although I usually respond to posts chronologically, lightning, your effort is such a doozy I will make an exception.

Now, let us take a look at the very hurty, yet thoughtful names which biffo hurled my way:

.....brainless fuckwit......you dumb cunt........YOU STUPID FUCK.....you ignorant, stupid LOUD MOUTH red neck......you cock smoker.....your smart mouth and lack of brain power........so go root a goat.........BOY.

But it is I who must refrain from name-calling? Is that how you see it, lightning? Aahh, that's good stuff.



Actually it was biffo who hijacked the thread with the peculiar reference to 9/11.



Once again, me?



The irony is thick right here. Very thick.

In this context, the word is spelled "you're". It is an abbreviation of the words "you are".



You mentioned free fall speed earlier, but again there is no explanation of what you think it means.



Again, an assertion repeated sans evidence. Nevertheless, the caps lock and the f-word make it compelling reading.



Is there a point here somewhere?



Crikey, biffo, you're hyperventilating a tad here. Relax, tiger.

Oops, I called him tiger. Sorry lightning.

I suggest everyone gets back on topic here.

Peace MongyMan

WRT the thread topic, what do you think your neighbour or your friend or your workmate or ANYONE would say if you told them that you had decided to prohibit them from consuming, for example, caffeine?

"Sorry, Bob, but I read recently that caffeine is not good for your heart, so I have decided to BAN you from enjoying your breakfast coffee. No more coffee for you, or I'll lock you up. I have decided what is best for you and you will obey my command or face the consequences."

What might Bob say to me? "Lick my balls"? "Fuck you"? Or maybe he would just pop me one in the jaw.

No-one, and that includes our fucking sanctimonious government, NO-ONE has the right to dictate to me or to you or to Bob what we may or may not ingest.

It is a self-evident human right.

Don't lick my balls, it tickles too much

Where the fuck did my post go?
It had links requested. It had everything to do with why nothing will change in America. You'll have to ask whoever it was that deleted my post for the links Major Overgrow
What a waste of time

Fuck this shit

Thanks 4 the effort Bufo,

It's been deletion-central here today, and there weren't that many posts.

Thanks Again,

MO

I deleted it bufo because of the abuse it also contained (I havn't got time to go editing posts if people can't remain civil) And no I don't have the links. Maby you could post them again Bufo minus the abuse.


Peace MongyMan

Posting them once was enough.

Post #17 is where the shit started, everything I posted in post #16 was able to be backed up by the links I spent time gathering.



I'll just repeat my original point and that is that until the criminals in the US government are removed, nothing will change in regard to their drug policy, doesn't matter how many of their states VOTE for saner drug laws NOTHING will change in that country, forget about debate.

Major Overgrow, go watch the internets most watched film in history. Loose Change
Po Campo

Thanks Bufo,

I'll download that tomorrow from my brothers place.
Phone line troubles here at the moment - 31.2Kbps MAX until Telstra come to fix it.

Slowly updating my antivirus program tonight... update - reboot - update - reboot - update - reboot - update - reboot - update - reboot - update - reboot - update - reboot - update - reboot.

They must hire their programmers from Micro$haft.

MO

It's on YouTube

I'll probably still get a good avi from Torrents.

Thanks Mate

MO